HPA safety concerns

[Darius137]

Before this gets personal and people's feelers get hurt, lets talk about the safety and realities of the Polarstar HPA setup in its' own thread, where it won't derail people's events.

Argument: HPA can be tuned to a higher fps and makes cheating easier and is unsafe.

Counter-Argument: The Polarstar HPA engine has a device that is internal and caps the weapon at 405fps. To go higher you must disassemble the gun and put a new piece in, that does not come stock with the gun.

This is identical in mechanics to someone buying a hot spring and swapping it in one of the many guns that allow a quick spring swap

[Darius137]

Additional counter-argument: People have used HPA rigs in the past for bolt action platforms, which are already at a higher level of the perceived safety tolerances for airsoft muzzle velocities, with no issues coming up.

[Nark]

or turning their FPS up like the G&G F2000 allows you to do.

[Junto]

Sounds like complaining now establishes a double-standard on more than a few fronts.

[Darius137]

Complaining about HPA safety?

[Nark]

Double standards? Explain yourself.

[McNair]

AirsoftPacific is founded on doublestandards.

[Junto]

Yup. I don't see the concern as separate from concerns with quick-change springs and the like. My Type 97 takes less than a minute to respring and I could just as easily drop an M120 in there as someone could buy the part and ramp up their HPA unit. We're already letting guns on the field that can be toned up in FPS with little effort and I haven't heard or seen any real hooplah where someone resprung after chrono just to be an asshole.

tl;dr
If something comparable already isn't a problem... it shouldn't be a problem. Just keep following the rules.

[MillerSA15]

I would like to add that I have heard stories of green gas guns shooting 650+ on a hot day, and the operator needing to bleed gas out of the mag before being able to pass chrono. I still trust those bolt operators not to be immature kids because thankfully those guns are expensive, which effectively keeps them out of the hands of the very immature.

If on a hot day one of those guys wanted to they could simply top off a mag and be able to take heads off! The scary thing is, that is without any modifications of any kind, so you couldn't even tell they had done it afterwards.

[Evil Zergling137]

Polarstar designed these guns to be safe and controllable at events. They are built by airsoft players for airsoft. They are running tons of these on the east coast where the company is located.

That is why the standard configuration is from ~355-405 instead of 375-425.

And the regulator is designed so that you can put a zip tie over it which would need to be removed if you wanted to further modify the fps. This is how you lock it into place.

They designed it so large changes in FPS required dissembling the gun - in order to bring it in line with standards for current AEG's.


This gun was designed to be safe and accepted. It is being used safely and accepted elsewhere and I argue that it should be accpted.

I messaged Braddock and he said that this would all be considered in good faith.

[Seagreen]

To play devils advocate:

The biggest difference in the spring vs gas argument is that gas expansion changes with an increase in temp while a spring maintains a shot to shot consistency.

The spring swap can still be done, but with changing the spring the variable is known (spring tension), versus gas expansion which can increase velocity without the owner of the gun intending it to happen.

[Braddock]

can you guys provide some documentation on this?

I am not calling you out. I just want to read and see it for myself.
Second hand knowledge is just that...

[MillerSA15]

To play devils advocate:

The biggest difference in the spring vs gas argument is that gas expansion changes with an increase in temp while a spring maintains a shot to shot consistency.

The spring swap can still be done, but with changing the spring the variable is known (spring tension), versus gas expansion which can increase velocity without the owner of the gun intending it to happen.

The power is based on the pressure at the gun, not in the tank, since the pressure at the gun is regulated at a max of 120psi, the air would have to get hot and expand after that regulated point, which could damage the gun. It is therefore in the gun owners own best interest to not allow fluctuations about that, plus HPA doesn't expand the same way green gas does. Even C02 is well know to not expand and contract much under changing temperatures.

[Seagreen]

Even C02 is well know to not expand and contract much under changing temperatures.

Wrong. I was the first guy to build an HPA/CO2 system here. I know what it is, and is not capable of.

The issue is "unintentional" velocity changes. Not someone turning an allen key, or dropping a spring in.

[McNair]

That's what people were initially asking. All we got was "it could be turned up too easy". So, we were calling BS on that.