HPA safety concerns

[Seagreen]

I'm a little more interested in the science. If some cheesedick is going to intentionally break the rules...he'll get popped regardless...spring or gas.

I'm more concerned about the people that have shit go wrong, and they didn't do anything to make it happen.

[Evil Zergling137]

To play devils advocate:

The biggest difference in the spring vs gas argument is that gas expansion changes with an increase in temp while a spring maintains a shot to shot consistency.

The spring swap can still be done, but with changing the spring the variable is known (spring tension), versus gas expansion which can increase velocity without the owner of the gun intending it to happen.

Thanks for bringing this up. The HPA will always be regulated to the same PSI regardless of temperature. While the gas in the tank may actually vary slightly, the regulator is not impacted and will always knock it down to 120psi.

The actual regulator setup first knocks the 850psi of the tank down to around 150psi, then the second stage regulator knocks it down to 90-120psi. It needs two so the reaction time is fast enough to support the 30+rps.

I think CO2 air rigs which operate based on the expansion of pressure of CO2 have real issues related to temperature, but this is an HPA setup which is I think superior based on everything I've read.

In playing with it, the regulator actually seems to release lower the pressure on the downwind size when you change the setting lower, so it would stand to reason that if the gas in the line were to increase in pressure slightly, even the next shot would be consistent.

[pulsipher]

Ive run a HPA m249 easily capibile of going from 400 to 50 in less than a second at several games. no complaints so far
FYI its FPS range is 290-500
but then again, why would I exceed the FPS limits. it doesnt make me better, really i should just sit at 330 and shoot fools all day long

[Evil Zergling137]

Here is the manual:

http://www.boxcarhosting.net/vivalapla/ ... 2011-1.pdf

Here is a picture of the second stage regulator:

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.vol ... 1315933250

The black piece on top pops up and turns to increase/decrease FPS. You lock that into place with a ziptie.

Here is the writeup I think shorty airsoft did:

http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=33727

How will these rifles be regulated for events with FPS limits?

A lot of people have been bringing up this concern due to the systems ability to easily adjust muzzle velocity. What most people forget is that paintball guns use this same type of air rig and officials have been successfully regulating muzzle velocities at national tournaments for decades. There are devices called tournament locks, which after the rifle is adjusted and chronographed to regulation velocity, are locked over the regulator and sealed so that one could not tamper with their velocity afterwards.

Also, as previously covered, the rifles air nozzles will be color coded to help officials recognize the performance capabilities of each rifle. And, while changing out an air nozzle on one of these systems isn’t exactly hard, it can’t be accomplished on the fly during a game.

Besides, there are several AEG’s out there which now feature quick change springs or adjustable spring guides to quickly change the rifles muzzle velocity. So really, a PR-15 with a mandatory tournament lock and its color coded air nozzle would be easier to regulate than a lot of these newer AEG’s.

[Evil Zergling137]

Here is an item where PolarStar added a lot of comments about the thought process they went through to design the setup with regards to safety and cheating.

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?s ... 6149695672

[Evil Zergling137]

Riddick has posted that he will allow it at his games.

We already chatted about the HPA regulator issue. I'm allowing that rifle at my game as long as it can be zip tie locked.

[Riddick]

As long as the regulator can be locked via zip tie among the other arguments presented like quick change spring functions I don't see it an issue until it becomes one.

the nozzles are color coded as well if he were to change those.

you can also spot check them or him I should say.

[MillerSA15]

Yup, so you wouldn't even need to chrono his gun, you just flip it over, see it was the correct color nozzle to go no higher than 405fps, and you are set.

[Riddick]

Though while I will allow it. It is up to the host and their comfort level and what they will allow.

[Matt]

I think ignorance is the problem here. Personally, I don't have any experience with these platforms so it's hard for me to tell what's safe and what's not. I think with some of these safe guards in place, they could be a viable option -- but the folks who run your games need to be educated on how they work or how to ensure they are being operated safely. A lot of the info posted by Evil Zergling137 is actually pretty helpful in this.

[Sir Stubby Eyre]

Consider Camp R&R educated, I don't have an issue with allowing HPA guns. We will Chrono and then zip tie lock it down and we are ready to play.

[Darius137]

I think the information is helpful, because it shows that even uneducated people can show up to games, or to games of uneducated hosts, and play within legal limits.

Especially with a nozzle that tops off around 400fps.

[VogonFord]

Do Polarstar guns meet OSHA workplace safety standards?

[Reese]

I would be in favor of random chrono inspections during games to keep players honest. It would be no different than ODOT stopping a working truck to make sure it's following the rules. Pick a random player from time to time throughout the game, chrono the weapon and have them back on the field in a couple minutes. Spring or gas, I think it's a good way to help solve concerns.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

If you do this at spawn I think it would work.
People would be upset at midfield interruptions.