Pushing FPS Limits

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Pushing FPS Limits

Postby Matt » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:17 pm

Why does every promoter feel the need to push the FPS limits and where does it stop? Is 400 fps not enough to get the job done for a full auto AEG? Why 420? Is it because you have team members who upgraded their gun to shoot too hot? Maybe they feel guilty about their own AEG shooting 440 so they figure why not push the limit? Makes everything sound better on paper.

And for bolt action. Is 550 fps not enough power to run an accurate bolt? Why 600?

And DMRs, don't even get me started. We're turning into Californian Airsofters here, we stand around on our feet in nice looking gear lobbing shots at 200 feet. Get dirty like a real rifeman.

Every time I bring up any topic here about raising recommended FPS limits, people throw a huge fit. Well, now the promoters are doing it anyway, and you guys are still going to the events. So what does that mean? The website is full of squeaky wheels and rest of you don't care? Does it bother you if 420 is the FPS limit for autos but some wildly popular chronographs have a varying read of 30 fps give or take, so that 420 could actually be 450? Do you want some random newb blind firing into your face at 450 fps from inside a bunker?

Just something to think about.
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Postby Icepick » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:22 pm

Exactly, It just bothers me when an AEG is allowed to shoot 420fps.


People who push the limits need to be told this: "So... You want your rifle to shoot above 400fps? Yes? Ok, then use a bleeding DMR and wipe up your tears."
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Re: Pushing FPS Limits

Postby ParoJo » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:23 pm

Matt wrote:Do you want some random newb blind firing into your face at 450 fps from inside a bunker?

This
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Postby league 4 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:39 pm

I feel like the 420FPS thing might be because when upgrading, most springs will put you slightly over 400FPS rather than slightly under... Like my Modify M120, it shot 440 or so out of the box then settled down to 420 or so. Just speculation though, if it was up to me it'd stay at 400fps... I don't really see a need for much more, especially since so many people are far too dumb to use an AEG shooting 400FPS, let alone 420+.
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Postby Rainmaker » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:41 pm

OMG GAIS MY UB3R 1337 AK47 RIS RAS TACTICAL FULL METAL GEARBOX SNIPER RIFLE SMG CARBINE AEG SHOOTS 450 FPS!!!!!!

Airsoft Megastore (i know theyre not a manufacturer) appeals to noobs this way. little kids only care about how strong their guns shoot because they think it makes them the super cool call of duty recon sniper dude. Us "higher level" players understand the dangers of FPS violations but unfortunately, more Crosman guns get sold to redneck 10 year olds than KWAs to legitimate players. If I see more money in selling 10,000 500fps pieces of junk to a bunch of redneck Wisconsin kids than selling 100 KWAs to the elite few legitimate players, I'm going to appeal to the noobs so I can get their (parent's) money.
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Postby code789 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:45 pm

maybe we should look at the regulations in terms of joules not FPS
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Postby London » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:51 pm

I couldn't agree more, several players and teams in our area love to upgrade their guns to 500+ fps, and allow crazy high fps at their games with little or no engagement ranges. On my team we follow AP guidelines, although we do allow Sniper AEGs up to 450 if they follow the same rules as Bolts. Beyond that though 400 for AEGs and Gas, 330 for CQC, 550 for Bolts. I think people feel the need to have high fps because it makes them "cooler", or more "manly" when they get hit point blank with a 500 fps gun. Personally I think it's just stupid.
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Postby Matt » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:02 pm

code789 wrote:maybe we should look at the regulations in terms of joules not FPS


We've always had the joule rating next to our limits.

Airsoft Pacific Safety Rules wrote:Standard 6mm BBs Fully/Semi Automatics - 400 fps (1.5j)
CQB/Indoor - All under 330 fps (1j)
Sniper Rifles (Bolt Action ONLY) - 550 FPS (2.8j)
*Limits Measured with .20g BB
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Postby dos_Santos » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:15 pm

I took my stock Classic Army Tango Down ECR-4 (pre-production) and upgraded the bucking, nub and barrel (to a tight-bore), and never even opened the gear box. It chrono'ed around 420 (.20's) at 2 big events (LC: R66, LoW). Then yesterday at Sundown it chrono's at 375 (.20's). Lol! Honestly I don't mind the 420 limit. I was in Georgia this past summer and it was 410. While I try to settle in at 400, I like to have the margin due to differences in chrono's. Maybe we need to have calibrated chronos. Typical engagement distances are over 100 ft any way. IMO, if you are willing to dish it out, you'd better be willing to take it.

Oh, what do you mean by every promoter? I have only known Sundown and the upcoming ABIV to break the 400 barrier lately, but I have missed a few events since November.
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Postby McNair » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:19 pm

A lot of the new guns are coming out of the box shooting over 400. 415-420 on average. This was the reasoning I've heard by everyone that 420fps is the new limit. Every game I've been to for the last 2 years has been a 420fps limit for AEGs.
My gun shot 415 at Lords Of War and it shoots 380 every other time. Hamster chrono'd my gun for me at this game, so I'm not sure what it was at, but it passed.

And "Real riflemen" shoot at farther than 200ft, Matt ;)


Also, as has always been said in the past, if you don't like it, don't go. It's pretty simple in the end. That's the only way it's going to make an impression on the promoter, however I think going back to a strict 400fps limit will screw over many players. ANd the majority of them, like myself, haven't even opened our guns. They come that way.
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Postby newboots » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:22 pm

The only one i think should be able to go up is the cqb to 350 every thing else should be meet the limit or leave that's why i have my guns shoot 380 or less.
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Postby Junto » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:24 pm

I'm noticing some inconsistencies when I chrono my AEG simply on a chrono to chrono basis. There's a lot of room for inaccuracy there. Sometimes, I chrono my old G3 and it's shooting 170-190. Other times, it's shooting 260 pretty consistently. Same thing has been happening chronoing my AUG and Type 97. Game to game, I'll get massively different readings that climb and descend at random.

Makes me wonder how safe we're being already. I've always supported having "wiggle room" for new AEGs that came shooting hot and need time to wear in, but actually raising the standard FPS limit is still pretty silly. More people will start upgrading for an even higher mark. If we give them the inch, they'll go for the mile.
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Postby Jester316 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:26 pm

I don't understand why people WANT their guns shooting that fast. It puts more stress on your gearbox, and has a greater chance of injury. My bolt shoot 456, and I had no issues shooting people at Sundown. My last 3 guns all chronoed at 275, and again, no issue with killing people. It seems that people are using higher FPS as a crutch for lack of willingness to move in on targets.
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Postby GaBoOwnz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:33 pm

I always try to keep my guns shooting around ~380 or less, just so I don't have to deal with broken bits as often.

It seems that a lot of people think that FPS = range. I see a lot of younger players running around with their suped-up 450 FPS AEG thinking they must be hitting out to 250 feet because their gun is more powerful.
People just don't realize that there really is no benefit to such a high muzzle velocity except mutilation of your opponents, if that's your thing.
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Postby Hamster » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:34 pm

Maybe we should just set a state limit on replicas.

Bolts shooting 550, AEGs shooting 400, and so on.

As rainmaker said, Most companies probably go for the money. They probably don't give a single shazaam and a half on what people do with them. Redneck children are just going to buy more and more until those companies get sued for something.

For the last statement London said, playing airsoft makes you less manlier than being a ripped pony on steroids. We're running around the woods playing with replica firearms shooting cornstarch* condensed to the point it makes it plastic-like. That's just my opinion.

Most of those who think being hit by sub 500 is weak are just those who want to run around the forest shooting people, and not in for the gameplay.
I've met plenty of people who say "500 doesn't hurt lol." They're just in for the sake of shooting.

Back to the idea of limits being pushed, it's probably an anti-hacking measure, but it's sure going to become completely unsafe over time. 300 can already knock out a tooth, as what most players know and have felt. I can't say for sure, but this could be the number one excuse for them being raised.

If it is indeed an anti hacking measure, then the punishment for hacking needs to be more severe obviously. But as people say, "It's illegal when you get caught."

As McNair stated, AEGs are coming out of the box at 415-420.
Not everyone can dump cash to downgrade their spring, or buy a sidearm for the closer engagements.

With the higher limits, I feel the safety kill engagement distances are going to have to become larger and larger.

AEG limits I guess could go up to 420, mind these points coming from me. The other limits, fine as can be.

The CQC distances are fine. 330 is safe as can be.

*I think a Madbull bio BB is made of cornstarch from what I've read on a label.

Also, it took me an hour to type this up as I've previewed and refreshed the topic several times and gotten points in.

Disagree with one of my points? Send me a PM and I'll edit my post with your opinion.
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