Pushing FPS Limits

Airsoft safety discussion. Post here with questions about laws and safety concerns.

Postby Evil Zergling137 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:43 pm

FPS limits have never changed. 410 FPS guns have really never been turned away from 400fps games for as long as there have been chrono. 420fps has simply formalized what was already in place (and maybe raised it 10fps).

What I've witnessed though is that while AEG limits have become firm (I think no one is being let run full auto on 425) people can still get away with a lot in the DMR category. Just a few weeks ago a guy said he was running 470fps as a DMR. I also know people have been let through chrono with 470fps guns that are full auto capable and just told not to use it.

My personal opinions are this:
a) 420fps won't go any higher for full auto.
b) I don't like the DMR category at all. I don't think that it is safe because you can put out a lot of rounds really fast in semi. Most semi aren't exactly waiting a second between shots.
c) certain AEGs FPS vary a lot depending on temperature and humidity. Bring your own chrono to a game and compare if you want. I think it has to do with temperature impacting how well the air seals are performing. I don't think chronos at games are inaccurate. Sometimes your gun will perform up to the internals you put in it and sometimes it will not.

PS: I ran 399fps this last weekend and do not care what the limit is as long as it is a HARD limit. I do not want to match the standard exactly but go up against hotter guns in the field that I could have matched had I known I would have gotten away with it.
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Postby Wombat Six » Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:57 pm

Maybe I'm the odd man out, but I like the current 330/400/550 FPS "AP standard".

If you're spending $200+ on a replica and magazines, along with a set of utilities, some tactical gear, and all that, and then decide, "No, that $25 spring and the shop labor to make sure my replica meets the community standard is too much money, this will not do...", you may be in the wrong hobby.

I play at the games because I don't have a choice in the matter. I either accept the incremental shifts in FPS or stop playing, and I like the sport too much to just throw the towel in. Granted, I was playing 10 years ago when we thought waiting six weeks for a package to hopefully show up from Japan was pretty awesome, and we'd never even heard of chronographs...

It already hurts like a sonofagun when I get three or four BBs on bare skin. I stopped playing paintball because I couldn't show my forearms at work after a weekend of playing, and I'll stop playing airsoft if I have to start explaining the welts on my arms and face when I go to work Monday morning.

The "DMR class" seems silly to me, but I guess I let it go because it seems like there aren't enough players out there who are willing to do the work involved in making a semi-only rifle. That being said, as we don't specially mark "DMR" players in any way (I've seen one event where DMRs got a different color zip-tie), it's impossible to gauge the number of folks in that category at any event.

I've also got serious concerns about chronograph consistency. Event hosts need to ensure their chronos are calibrated properly or remove them from use.
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Postby GaBoOwnz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:12 pm

Wombat Six wrote:
If you're spending $200+ on a replica and magazines, along with a set of utilities, some tactical gear, and all that, and then decide, "No, that $25 spring and the shop labor to make sure my replica meets the community standard is too much money, this will not do...", you may be in the wrong hobby.


Wholehearted agreement.

An M110 spring is like 15 bucks. If you spend money on your guns and gear, you can pay a few bucks for a few up(down)grades

Also, semi-auto is a bonehead-easy conversion. All it takes is a file and your gun's selector plate.
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Postby Evil Zergling137 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:30 pm

GaBoOwnz wrote:Also, semi-auto is a bonehead-easy conversion. All it takes is a file and your gun's selector plate.


Agreed. After reading those 475FPS limit DMR rules I'm considering doing this for the game.
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Postby Rogue Reaper » Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:48 pm

I'm not really playing anymore so my opinion doesnt matter much.

My experience is this tho.... 400 FPS people hack and dont call thier hits, 450 muthafuchahs call they muthufuching hitz!
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Postby God » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:09 pm

I can agree with the 420fps for AEGs and 550 for bolts. Or phrase it as... 400fps with up to 20 difference. So intead of people intentionally going for that extra 20, just say the limit is 400, but +20fps won't make your gun ineligible.
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Postby Wombat Six » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:17 pm

TheNinja wrote:I can agree with the 420fps for AEGs and 550 for bolts. Or phrase it as... 400fps with up to 20 difference. So intead of people intentionally going for that extra 20, just say the limit is 400, but +20fps won't make your gun ineligible.


I admire your logic, but you've just restated the same thing two separate ways. If I know that I'm going to get away with 420 FPS because the limit is "400 FPS with a 20 FPS margin of error", then I'm going to build a gun that's closer to 420 FPS than 400 FPS.
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Postby Osprey » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:21 pm

I also agree with Matt those FPS limit were put there as a safety concern. Follow the rules or just don't play, plain and simple. Downgraded if the FPS is to much
Last edited by Osprey on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GaBoOwnz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:25 pm

'Wiggle room' should be rounded down, imo. If you're shooting above, you're shooting above, even if your FPS isn't constant.
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Postby Osprey » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:28 pm

GaBoOwnz wrote:'Wiggle room' should be rounded down, imo. If you're shooting above, you're shooting above, even if your FPS isn't constant.
I ninja edited my last post hahaha. But what you said is still true tho.
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Postby McNair » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:40 pm

The wiggle room is taking in consideration that temperature will effect your FPS. As someone else pointed out, Chronos can vary your FPS by up to 30FPS.
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Postby GaBoOwnz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:48 pm

The more flexible the rules, the more people are going to attempt to stretch them. I could see where some leeway would be nice, but I can also see where somebody with a gun that shoots 430 could get by a 400 FPS limit that way.
Unless somebody wants to take the time every game to document case-by-case variations in FPS to use as a reference or something.
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Postby McNair » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:51 pm

It's a 420 cut off no matter what whenever I've chrono'd games.
The 20 is the leeway over the 400. It's pretty much always been this way, we're just admitting it in the last year or so.
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Postby GaBoOwnz » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:58 pm

So if that is the case, wouldn't officially raising the cap to 420 just encourage people to test the 440 ceiling?
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Postby Ash » Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:59 pm

As for SOTA games we have been using the DMR rule successfully for well over 2 years now. I think if the numbers are limited and properly admined it works great.

As I posted in the AB V thread the "600" FPS bolt thing was an error, so please call off the witch hunt.

I think the main reason for the change behind 420 for AEG's is the fact that many AEG's come stock shooting between 400 ~ 420.

I know Rick and many other promoters have been doing this hard stop at 420 for over a year now. Also most promoters had 420 has their silent limit much before this as well.
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