Firearms Safety Rules (Airsoft, too!)

[Evil Zergling137]

These types of rules fall to the lowest common denominator usually and that is exactly where these types of 'safety' rules came from.

You are incorrect, sir. These "safety" rules were developed decades before you were born by a Colonel named Jeff Cooper, the man who is hailed for creating the modern handgun method and safety, a man who served in the military during World War II, a man who had a gun with him every day and learned how to treat it with respect. These rules were developed for everyone.

Edited for hindsight humility.

we agree dude. This is an airsoft thread btw. Airsoft picked up these rules in the PNW when the crowd got old enough to have vets come back and teach this stuff. Not sure what I was incorrect about lol. I don't know how you could read my post and think I was talking about real steel.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

Backstop? When have you ever thought about backstops when playing airsoft? BBs don't travel as far as bullets and the consequences of them hitting things other than the intended target is much less.
I never intend to kill or destroy anything I point my airsoft gun at. (Except one unlucky mobile home.)
When guns aren't loaded they aren't loaded. After ever game I clear the chamber to reduce the chance of accidentally shooting it later. (When in the case, removing it from the case, ect.) If every gun was loaded even when it wasn't there would be no point to unloading them, also it would be impossible to do so.

Jerms are better, but are still more for real steel range shooting.

[Jerm_G]

Ivan, I think you missed the thread title. The rules cover both. As someone who deals with those that transition from airsoft to real guns regularly, I can tell you the bad habits always carry over. Fingers in triggers, and near non-existing muzzle control to name a few. The thing is that for many, airsoft is a transition period for first time gun owners, and a hobby for current gun owners. The community needs to nip the bad habits in the butt to prevent some tard from killing him self or someone else.

As for safeties, this comes down to training. Training being the reason many LEO guns do not have safeties. Why, because most of them can barely shoot as is and almost never train beyond what is REQUIRED of them. This lack of training in the past, led to a rash of incidents where the officer has failed to take the safety of his gun and in the end resulted in his death. So in the infinite wisdom of the powers to be, the solution in their eyes was to take the safety off the guns instead of fixing the training issue. Interestingly enough, recent studies have found that officers were more likely to recover their firearm if it was removed from their possession by Mr. Bad Guy, if the firearm had a physical safety, because the bad guys were not learning how to use guns with safeties too.

The use of a safety is not fool proof, but does add one more speed bump in the long chain of negligent shazaam ups that has to occur for there to be an potentially debilitating issue. Those firearms safety rules are not mine, nor were made by me, but by those much wiser and experienced in the world of firearms. As for teaching a beginner on a firearm that has a safety, the worse that could happen (if all the safety rules are being followed) is that they are slower on getting the first shot off.

In short, these rules apply to airsoft as much as they do to real firearms. You want to prevent issues arising from negligence, incorporate all 5 rules. In the case of every N.D. that has ever happened, at least 2 rules out of the 5 were violated. In cases where a person was injured, 3 or more. So in short, pay attention, follow the 5 rules, and don't shazaam up!

[bye]

For me, muzzle awareness is all I really care about whilst airsofting. My safety has become second nature to hit when derping around or otherwise not in an active combat situation. But I have to say, muzzle awareness is the worst in airsoft it seems. All the other unloading stuff I consider unnecessary in airsoft unless the whole day is over.

[Orwell]

Edited for clarity.

[Switchback]

Switchback's Rules of Safe Replica Firearm Handling:

1: Don't be a bleeding idiot. #situational awareness

/thread.


Or we could proceed to dick-measure to increase blood pressure and post count...

[Icepick]

1: Don't be a f***ing idiot. #situational awareness

#awkAF

I think the main concern for airsoft is to always have your safety on while you are not firing your replica. That way, muzzle control is still an issue, but doesn't present any real threat other than pissing off the old guys. I know "a safety is a system that can and will fail." But with an actual AEG, be my guest to try and get the thing to fire while it's on safe, or manage to move the selector switch from safe to semi or full auto without your knowing (bumping it, snagging it on something, etc.) and then getting the rifle to accidentaly aim at your buddy and then somehow getting the weapon to fire without your finger being on the trigger.

On a side note: This seems a bit nonsensical for airsoft due to the fact that while playing, you should be properly protected anyways. I know nobody likes being shot by accident, but honestly, if you aren't wearing protective eyewear or facewear while out on the field then you have a whole lot of other problems to worry about. If you aren't shot by accident in a vital area (eyes, lips, teeth, etc.) then toughen up, it's a 6mm plastic BB.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

Ivan, I think you missed the thread title.

Actually, I think you did.

The title is "FIREARMS SAFETY RULES (AIRSOFT, TOO!)".
I am pointing out how I think these rules are not very good for airsoft.

EDIT: Also anyone want to tell me why I should have my safety on in the middle of an airsoft game?

[Jerm_G]

I understand the title meant firearms and airsoft safety rules, based the use of the word "too". Im sure Orge will be around shortly to correct me if my interpritation is wrong.

Reasons for use of the safety durring play comes down to three reasons.

1: consistancy in training for those you have, use, or plan on using real firearms. An act takes 10,000 repititions to become mussle memory so why not help knock out some of those reps while you are playing. But by choosing to only apply the basics a few times a year,then blow them out one's a$$ the rest of the year dergades all the hard work to learn how to do something correctly, and intead causes bad habits to become the mussle memory.

2: It doesnt take any longer to disengage the safety than it does to leave it off safe. Your not giving anything up by using it.

3: the safety acts as another possible catch to help prevent a negligent discharge.

What is the reasons for not using it durring play? I dont buy the "i'm less likely to forget to use the safety durring a game" excuse. To me that just translates to "I have a vauge understanding of the weapons system I'm using, and dont posess the skills that are required to make it function as designed." I also dont support the "it's just plasitc BB's no one is going to die from it" lines as well. To me the excuse sounds like a line to justify lazness and incompitence. I laugh when I read about how people want to be mil-sim and "leet" spec-ops but refuse to learn the extreme basics to even handle the weapons systems correctly. The safety laziness is one of the big reasons airsoft is highly looked down apon by the shooting community and given a near herpies like stigma. I personally prefer to buck that trend and stigma if I was a community leader.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

I understand the title meant firearms and airsoft safety rules, based the use of the word "too". Im sure Orge will be around shortly to correct me if my interpritation is wrong.

This is correct. How do you think I did not understand the topic?

Reasons for use of safety, I see your point on number one.

I disagree with number two and three.
It takes an amount of time to turn off any safety. (Unless you count Glock trigger safety, but I doubt anyone does.)
I use an AK. AKs are very common. Turning off the safety on an AK takes a few seconds and usually results in taking you gun off the target and your trigger finger away from the trigger. It is completely impractical to do this in my opinion.

I don't think I've ever had a negligent or accidental discharge on the field. Only times I remember are when my safety should have been on no question and wasn't for whatever reason. I have lost a shot because of my safety being on, and have been saved quite a few times from others leaving theirs on.

[ogrejager]

Hell, I've hunted with experienced shooters that have had misfires. Was any one hurt? No. Why? Because we practice and use the basic rules--their firearms went off, but in a safe direction. Again, where's the harm in practicing safety.

Remind us again how you got your leg shot with a shotgun?

Me: Sitting against a tree, waiting for a turkey to walk up while I had a decoy 5-6 feet away from me.
Dumbass college kid: Sneaks up, sees decoy, shoots decoy. BB's also hit me in the leg.

It was not someone I was hunting with. Nor was it a misfire. It was an idiot who thought a decoy was a real bird and didn't take the time to see that I was sitting there, too (granted, I was hard to see in camo). He failed several of Jer's rules.

Jer, that's the correct "too"!

I'm also pretty sure these rules existed before the airsoft community "got old enough to have vets"

I don't recall you being around when this happened.

Zerg, I'm pretty sure I didn't have to be playing airsoft to know that firearm safety rules were around before that. Also, just because I wasn't playing airsoft didn't mean I wasn't doing something else very similar. If your posted age is correct you were two the first time I played paintball. Your parents probably hadn't even met the first time I shot a caribou/duck/goose/ptarmigan/etcetera. Those rules existed then, too. Well before the airsoft even existed as a hobby, not to mention having returning vets.

[Jerm_G]

Reasons for use of safety, I see your point on number one.

I disagree with number two and three.
It takes an amount of time to turn off any safety. (Unless you count Glock trigger safety, but I doubt anyone does.)
I use an AK. AKs are very common. Turning off the safety on an AK takes a few seconds and usually results in taking you gun off the target and your trigger finger away from the trigger. It is completely impractical to do this in my opinion.

I don't think I've ever had a negligent or accidental discharge on the field. Only times I remember are when my safety should have been on no question and wasn't for whatever reason. I have lost a shot because of my safety being on, and have been saved quite a few times from others leaving theirs on.

For reference:

1: Treat all firearms as if they are always loaded.
2: never point a firearm at anything you are not willing, and justified to shoot.
3: keep your firearm on safe untill you are on target, ready, and justified to fire.
4: keep your finger straight, off the trigger and out of the trigger guard in untill you are on target, willing, and justified to fire.
5: know your target, what is in front of your target, and behind your target.

Ivan I dont see how you can disagree with number two. Why, because airsoft is not leathal? I don't see the logic. The logic is simple on our end, If you have no buisness shooting at something, dont point your weapon at it. Seems simple to me. No one can "accidently get shot in the face if there is nothing pointing at them. This rule is really important for mil-sim games. Talking to Seagreen today about this ,and he pointed out that in BSG events, you got docked points for it. Same for not observing #5 or any other rule for that matter. He also stated that these rules have always been in effect for as long as he has played airsoft in the North West. WAY prior to AP.

As for your referance to the AK taking for ever to come off safe, I'll just let Travis Haley make the statement for me so I dont have to drag the Go-Pro out and do the demo my self.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfGnz38K9ik&feature

Not that I dont know what Im talking about my self...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4fFkiW2 ... e=youtu.be

Times on all shots are with in 1.2 to 1.5 seconds respectfully... And this is me taking my sweet friggin time. So If I can do this with a real gun, airsoft should be just as fast if not faster.

[Nodachi]

1: consistancy in training for those you have, use, or plan on using real firearms. An act takes 10,000 repititions to become mussle memory so why not help knock out some of those reps while you are playing. But by choosing to only apply the basics a few times a year,then blow them out one's a$$ the rest of the year dergades all the hard work to learn how to do something correctly, and intead causes bad habits to become the mussle memory.

2: It doesnt take any longer to disengage the safety than it does to leave it off safe. Your not giving anything up by using it.

3: the safety acts as another possible catch to help prevent a negligent discharge.

Ivan was referring to these three points you made, not the rules themselves.

I wasn't going to put my opinion, but I agree with Jerm, safety manipulation is a function of training and practice, and being lax is not an excuse to be negligent.

I can also point out that there have been events that have actually mixed real firearms with BFAs and blanks with airsoft weapons so they don't even always exist in mutual exclusion. (I don't personally condone this, by the way.) And there was an incident where a person came into possession of a real firearm at said event not realizing it was one. If that person had not followed rule 1, I believe there could have been potential injury. (Even blanks can throw stuff out. There is a reason that flashpaper guns exist.)

[Evil Zergling137]

I'm also pretty sure these rules existed before the airsoft community "got old enough to have vets"

I don't recall you being around when this happened.

Zerg, I'm pretty sure I didn't have to be playing airsoft to know that firearm safety rules were around before that. Also, just because I wasn't playing airsoft didn't mean I wasn't doing something else very similar. If your posted age is correct you were two the first time I played paintball. Your parents probably hadn't even met the first time I shot a caribou/duck/goose/ptarmigan/etcetera. Those rules existed then, too. Well before the airsoft even existed as a hobby, not to mention having returning vets.

a) this isn't paintball
b) I played before anyone thought to apply these things to airsoft. You did not. You don't seem to know or understand the history.

With the exception of face protection there is no real safety concern in airsoft. For goodness sake the guns are made to be shot at other people! The only difference with regards to safety between this and nerf is the need for eye protection.

If you get concerned because of someone pointing their gun at you at any place other than an unprotected face then your concern is NOT safety but a desire to avoid pain or some carryover from some other activity you do.

This is all basic stuff people should be able to understand. Applying real steel rules to airsoft with regards to safety is 'milsim' and little more. it is not safety. They are not 'safety' rules. They are don't make people uncomfortable rules.

[Ivan Daylovich™]

Ivan was referring to these three points you made, not the rules themselves.

This is correct.

As for the video I have two thoughts on that.

1: He's switching to semi. If you wanna switch an AK to full auto (center setting on the AK) it would take more precision, and longer time in my opinion.
2: His AK is not on target. In the case that I am waiting for someone to come into my sights (Moving around a corner, waiting for them to pop out of cover, ect.) I see that time as mattering, as it's not overlapping his "get weapon on sight" time.