Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

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Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Mrmagoo » Sat May 17, 2014 7:23 pm

Currently working on taking an LPEG and putting a gas system into it that I have designed and tested on the side over the years. The system is very simplistic and reliable (Prototype system has fired 50K+ crossman bucket bb's without a single failure of any sort). I still have my AEG but would like this for a spare due to reliability and cost while still being competitive.

The system Runs on a remote CO2 paintball tank. It's shear reliability comes at a downside of poor gas efficiency and therefore some sort of remote system is a necessity. I understand (and agree with!) the hesitation around remote CO2/HPA as FPS is easily adjustable to unsafe levels.

What it boils down to: Would adjusting the Palmers CO2 regulator to well below fps limits and than using Epoxy putty to semi-permanently lock the regulator in place work for you guys? In no way would the gun be adjustable in field with the adjustment screw filled with epoxy. Again i'm not looking for L77T pwnsor high fps rifle. I'm seeking affordable reliability and the pride of using something I designed, tested and fielded myself.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Jmonday » Sat May 17, 2014 8:49 pm

Mrmagoo wrote:Currently working on taking an LPEG and putting a gas system into it that I have designed and tested on the side over the years. The system is very simplistic and reliable (Prototype system has fired 50K+ crossman bucket bb's without a single failure of any sort). I still have my AEG but would like this for a spare due to reliability and cost while still being competitive.

The system Runs on a remote CO2 paintball tank. It's shear reliability comes at a downside of poor gas efficiency and therefore some sort of remote system is a necessity. I understand (and agree with!) the hesitation around remote CO2/HPA as FPS is easily adjustable to unsafe levels.

What it boils down to: Would adjusting the Palmers CO2 regulator to well below fps limits and than using Epoxy putty to semi-permanently lock the regulator in place work for you guys? In no way would the gun be adjustable in field with the adjustment screw filled with epoxy. Again i'm not looking for L77T pwnsor high fps rifle. I'm seeking affordable reliability and the pride of using something I designed, tested and fielded myself.



"crossman" bb's
/thread

I wouldn't even play with your settup with a 10 foot pole(or 30). You've "jerry rigged" your tank. Simply putting "epoxy" on the regulator screw isn't going to solve the problem, and could be deemed hazardous. If something happened, where the screw tightened, or came loose, that could be a big problem. The fields that I've played at, don't even accept rigged HPA or CO2 air-riffles. I still laughed at the fact that you could "control" the C02.. If your interested, please, refer to the post that I've made here. (viewtopic.php?f=33&t=42399) Although C02 would be best around here, aside from Propane.

I still don't get why people want to bring paint-ball into airsoft... :doubt:

I also hope your going to replace almost all of the internals on that LPEG... I hope that it works for you.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Riddick » Sat May 17, 2014 9:11 pm

No homebrews for me allowed. Especially pyro, combustables
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby ogrejager » Sun May 18, 2014 12:12 am

Jmonday,

It's a freakin' Palmer regulator screwed on to a CO2 tank. Palmer's regulators have been taken into SPACE. Yes, that's a true story. It's not a jury-rigged system any more than any HPA/CO2 system is for airsoft. Other than the Polarstars, none are "stock."

Also, it's not about bringing paintball to airsoft. It's about designing a reliable airsoft gun. Kudos to Magoo. If it works well, that's awesome.

Magoo,

Spend the $15 and get a tournie lock for the regulator. Also, if you're going to do all this work, don't use CO2-just go with HPA. Finally, if your system is reliable and easy to make work, let's talk. We could market the friggin' thing. Give Polarstar some competition.

Riddick,

You allow homebrewed replicas into your games all the time. Anyone that's opened a gearbox or changed a hopup has "homebrewed" their replica. If it passes chrono, why the harsh judgement? Are you going to deny me my HPA sniper rifle because I built the system myself?
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Mrmagoo » Sun May 18, 2014 1:32 am

Ogrejager,

Did't even know about the Tournie locks- just what I am looking for. Thanks!

Jmonday,
Thank you for your opinions. Trying to feel this out.

What I was talking about was not a jerry rigged tank. Merely filling the head of a set screw in order to prevent easy adjustment with an allen key. But a lock is even better, so its a moot point on my part 8). Palmers are reputable regulator meant to work with CO2. Ran one before with a classic Kokusai Car-15 and never had any issues with them.

And yes- those crappy LPEG internals go where they should- the garabage. Just need the body itself.

Riddick- I understand. Thank you for your input as an event host.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Riddick » Sun May 18, 2014 2:06 am

My homebrew statement is in reference to his topic not in general. My stance is that of safety almost 100% of the time. I personally don't feel comfortable with someone manufacturing high compression or pyrotechnics that do not have a degree/certification in those respective areas to use at my games. My position at this juncture is that if it doesn't come from a manufacturer created in that manner then its a no go if we catch it. Its not a perfect position without merit flaws or arguments but this is about what makes me feel comfortable. Airsoft companies have engineers and many do testing before releasing product into the market. Doesn't mean they are 100% safe but it most likely means that average Joe didn't create it either.

This also applies to the .01%, so I'm not going to go into a debate over it.

Good luck on your project Magoo. There's others out there that are more courageous then I.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Jmonday » Sun May 18, 2014 5:13 pm

Riddick wrote:My homebrew statement is in reference to his topic not in general. My stance is that of safety almost 100% of the time. I personally don't feel comfortable with someone manufacturing high compression or pyrotechnics that do not have a degree/certification in those respective areas to use at my games. My position at this juncture is that if it doesn't come from a manufacturer created in that manner then its a no go if we catch it. Its not a perfect position without merit flaws or arguments but this is about what makes me feel comfortable. Airsoft companies have engineers and many do testing before releasing product into the market. Doesn't mean they are 100% safe but it most likely means that average Joe didn't create it either.

This also applies to the .01%, so I'm not going to go into a debate over it.

Good luck on your project Magoo. There's others out there that are more courageous then I.



I agree with this 100% +1

Someone should make sure that there is no flaws before it's being used against people.. Just building one in your garage, then chronoing it doesn't make it 100% safe.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby ogrejager » Sun May 18, 2014 8:00 pm

Jmonday wrote:Someone should make sure that there is no flaws before it's being used against people.. Just building one in your garage, then chronoing it doesn't make it 100% safe.


Again, so every one of us that has taken apart our gearbox or replaced our hopup but isn't a "certified tech" has built something in their garage. Oh, wait. I don't even think there are "certified techs". Do those guys at AONW have certifications? If I had one of them build an HPA sniper, would you allow that? Rick?
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Mrmagoo » Mon May 19, 2014 12:11 am

Jmonday wrote:

I agree with this 100% +1

Someone should make sure that there is no flaws before it's being used against people. Just building one in your garage, then chronoing it doesn't make it 100% safe.


I agree with this as well. A simple build, chrono and fielding of the platform at a game is unwise. Even the best engineers can overlook details. But at what point would you draw the line for testing? ~50,000 bb's is a whole lot of testing. I honestly don't think my AEG could go through that many rounds without a piston/tappet plate breaking. I would be interested to know how many rounds a company like polar star, CA or TM put their designs through before market. I feel confident that if I put another 50k rounds through it the results will be the same as before. In fact that sounds fun. Guess i get to place an order for a ton of cheap bb's :lol:
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby ClownBaby » Mon May 19, 2014 1:48 am

Can we see some pics?
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Matt » Mon May 19, 2014 8:38 am

I don't understand the obsession with HPA, with the exception of sniper rifles. We've been using electrics reliably for many years. If it aint broke, why fix it?
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby ogrejager » Mon May 19, 2014 8:56 am

Matt wrote:I don't understand the obsession with HPA, with the exception of sniper rifles. We've been using electrics reliably for many years. If it aint broke, why fix it?


Because they ARE broke. I can show you a whole closet of busted AEG's as an example. I've got two high end AEG's that even Jesse says it'd be cheaper to just buy a new replica. If you can builder a simpler, more reliable system with compressed gas, why wouldn't you?
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Jmonday » Mon May 19, 2014 10:54 am

ogrejager wrote:
Matt wrote:I don't understand the obsession with HPA, with the exception of sniper rifles. We've been using electrics reliably for many years. If it aint broke, why fix it?


Because they ARE broke. I can show you a whole closet of busted AEG's as an example. I've got two high end AEG's that even Jesse says it'd be cheaper to just buy a new replica. If you can builder a simpler, more reliable system with compressed gas, why wouldn't you?


"I still don't get why people want to bring paint-ball into airsoft... :doubt:"

"Lets keep airsoft and paintball separate"

"Simply putting "epoxy" on the regulator screw isn't going to solve the problem, and could be deemed hazardous. If something happened, where the screw tightened, or came loose, that could be a big problem."

"The fields that I've played at, don't even accept rigged HPA or CO2 air-riffles."
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Wisenheimer » Mon May 19, 2014 12:21 pm

Bring that sucker out to Action Acres on the 31st. We'll go over it and get you squared away.

If you have home made anything you want to use in game, you simply have to bring it, show it to me, demonstrate it's operation, and if it's not up to par we can even help you with getting it working safely.

Everyone has an opinion on HPA, but the fact is to each his own. Whatever, as long as it's demonstratively safe.
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Re: Safety and Remote CO2- question for field/event hosts

Postby Mrmagoo » Mon May 19, 2014 8:18 pm

Wisenheimer:

The field usable version will not be ready by the 31st. Just got the LPEG in the mail today, and now I need to fab a new set of internals mildly redesigned to fit inside the gun body. The Prototype version is the equivalent of attaching a barrel/hopup unit, gearbox and magazine to a board so they all function with one another. It was never intended to play with as is, merely determine if the design was sound enough to invest further time/money into making. When the final version is done ill definitely bring it out to Canby.

Matt:

For me it's simply reliability. I'm tired of having AEG's break down. Still trying to get my VFC aks-74u up and running again.

To those who argue "Don't bring paintball into airsoft". Airsoft used HPA, PROPANE and CO2 before batteries so it's not "bringing paintball into airsoft" but more "going back to the roots" ;) . Furthermore the tanks are remote, not sticking out the back of a hideous gun. At least thats my 2 cents.
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