So much full face...

[Junto]

I understand that a growing number of fields, due to insurance requirements, are now mandating full face protection. There's probably no good solution in asking this, but, what can we do to not be nannied? I've got guys who won't play outdoor if full face is required and it looks like there's not going to be anywhere left to go soon. I didn't start playing this sport because it was safe. I'm a damn adult. I should have a choice.

[ogrejager]

Play on uninsured fields. Ivan's farm is a classic example. No insurance, no requirement.

Go to the games and see how many times you can get away with no face protection before the admins kick you out.

I'm not fond of it either, but it's what you're going to have to do.

(opinions voiced in this post are not those of SpecDet or Summer Slaughter)

[Hawkeye [F.O.A.D.]]

I agree, as adults we should have a choice. Unfortunately there are those out there that are sue happy and insurance protects the field owner/host from losing everything either in legal fees or what ever the awarded amount in a lawsuit. I know the swamp defines face protection as anything that covers from the bridge of the nose to the ears down. I personally use a mask designed for motorcycle riders, it is light fabric that breathes. Unfortunately I don't see this requirement changing, and the only way to get around it is going to a field that does not have insurance or go to the woods to play. I have been told the face mask requirement will be in all airsoft insurance policies going forward.

[Jester316]

My understanding is it was reported to insurance due to a number of claims of facial injuries at games held at SnipersDen. Hence the change in policy. I don't like it either (I also don't like full seal eye-pro rules for outdoors), but alas, there are no good fields that don't require SOMETHING anymore. If we can get more fields, we can go back to what we love. But as of now, with out options limited, we need to abide the rules.

[ClownBaby]

I wear a mask and love it, cuz of how many times it's been shot.

I would definitely not want to have a tooth shot out, but more so, I've always wondered what would happen if you were shot in the back of the throat? That's some pretty soft tissue back there.

And as far as I know, at Splat that rule only applied to minors. May or may not be the same insurance company?

BTW, I've been meaning to bring this up sometime, my new dentist, Dr. Harris Tran of the Clackamas dental group, is a former airsoft player from Hawaii, also a Ninjutsu practitioner, and he's the only Vietnamese guy I know that plays hockey!
So the point is this, he won't flip you shit if you come in with a busted tooth, like I'm sure a lot of others would do.

[Payback]

I've only used a mask for the last year, and personally, i prefer it. But, i only prefer it when i'm using it with a helmet and have it clipped to the rails. Otherwise the masks and head straps suck and need mods to fit well.

But they are cheap. Easy to modify, and Cheap.

With masks required now, the safety kill range has been removed to none. Surrender or die is policy at AA now. So the past bitches about safety kills won't happen, and now will be about masks and surrender or die rules.

[Junto]

This isn't solely in response to the new requirements at SniperzDen, first off. I have a few points.

1. I've been playing for a decade as of December. Have never been shot in the teeth or mouth. I don't like to play out a bunch of bullshit worrywort hypotheticals about where I could get shot, either. If I break a tooth, welcome to airsoft. If I get shot in the back of the throat, maybe I should (and I do) keep my mouth shut when I'm trading BBs unless my head is behind cover. That should be up to me.

2. Until recently, there weren't even masks that worked for me. Anything that contacted my face would make me break out in a horrible rash that would linger for most of a week. Balaclavas had to be removed and aired out frequently, as do shemaghs and multi-wraps. Neoprene masks only made the rashes worse. I wear a mesh lower mask indoors and sometimes outside, for looks. Still, if it's hot outside, you can bleeding forget it. It'll trap sweat against my face and, guess what? RASH.

3. It keeps you from getting a proper cheek weld on your weapon, which means you're unable to fully apprise your shot placement until you put a few out there and see how they fly. This can lead to the same safety concerns as blind firing.

4. And Ivan's farm is the only free place to skirm and it barely happens there anymore, Ogre. Camp R&R is the only other place I can think of that isn't requiring full face, which is fine, but I'm seriously losing participants at other games/fields over this. It should only apply to minors. If it's required, then any clause about injury in a waiver for the field means less than nothing, so why am I signing?

5. That shit ain't milsim and this isn't paintball.

6. On a less-related but still important note, my team and I won't host any events, including any future Fallout events, at a place that requires full face. For Fallout, specifically, it'll interfere with costuming, team ID, and themeing. It'll limit costume building options for players and suck the point out of the event.

7. Maybe we've let too many kids into the sport. Maybe airsoft's arch-nemesis, the suburban mother, has finally caused a turn in the way events are being run. If so, that's bleeding sad. I'm a goddamn libertarian. If I want my teeth shot out, that's my goddamn business and Little Jimmy's worrying mother can shazaam off and tell him he can wait until he's 18 to play.

[Junto]

Apply this same distaste toward the banning of mesh eyewear. It is less likely that I'll get hit in the eye by BB fragments through my mesh eyepro than it is for a solid lens to fog up and have me trip and break part of my body because I can't see where I'm going. Anti-fog doesn't work for everyone and there is no solid-lens solution that's 100% effective. At Lion Claws Red Storm last year, my eyepro fogged so bad in the middle of a firefight that I had to crawl under cover, remove it, dry it, and apply new anti-fog or risk falling in 30 foot holes with water at the bottom, or cutting my leg up like Jet Desert Fox did. I choose to wear mesh because of MY safety concerns. You won't see me any place that doesn't value my opinion on my own safety.

[ClownBaby]

Somebody say Fallout game? I call Raider! Or maybe I'll bust out my naked mole-rat costume?

I know you know this, so I'm just saying it for those who may not.
Fans work great, I run two per goggle. They work. And if you have to change batteries during a game, it's still quicker than a good wipe/fog spray dry time. You will also hear a slight loss in power, alerting you that the dump is around the corner.

That would have been a 60' fall to your death, lol. Going over the old-wood, Scooby-Doo creepy docks, in the truck with 12-15 people on it... ...yeah, that was some scary shit. I'll walk, thanks.

Jet got hurt "because of my mask blocking my view" his words, not mine. Not to bash, but that's bullshit. Jet got hurt because he got rapped up in the moment, was too pumped up, thought it was real for a minute? If you watch the video again, notice how after Matt gets shot, Jet starts role-playing "not like this bro" fun, right? But then you may notice his breathing pick way up. Leaving the room onto the stairs, he barely looks at the stairs at all. You gotta look at the stairs people. Unless you see tangos as your about to mount the stairs, that you know your gonna engage on the way down, Chow-Yun Fat style, LOOK AT THE FUNKIN STAIRS!

sorry junto...

Back on track. Junto, maybe you could spray the back side of your mask with something, I'm not sure what, cuz I just thought of it. But like when I buy surgical gloves, I get the non latex ones. Some people buy these because they break out while using them at work, I.E. nurses, emt's. I buy em cuz if you have to stick your hand in somebody, and their allergic to latex, they are gonna have fun healing.
Point is, there must be some kind of surgical device spray out there?

Or, you could just go with a wool backing. LOL
That would be Fallout!

[Solid]

What about a mouthguard rule in place of full face? Sure you'll sound a bit stupid, but you'll be able to breathe and shoot straight.



Behold, the future requirements of airsoft insurance policies!

[Junto]

I'd take a mouth guard over a mask, sure. I've already got one molded to my teeth from a few bouts of fisticuffs with some friends back in the day.

[ClownBaby]

Hey Mom's, don't read this:

Anybody got a spare ballistic gel head sitting around? I've always wondered if a round could penetrate the nasal cavity?

[Solid]

Hey Mom's, don't read this:

Anybody got a spare ballistic gel head sitting around? I've always wondered if a round could penetrate the nasal cavity?

I've been zipped in the nose enough times to tell you no, you'll be fine. I doubt even the highest of FPS'es will break that much skin.

[Cyclops]

Hellboy on my team got shot in the face which we thought was one Bb. We had to take a knife to pop it out. The following day he noticed that there was another one inside his face but pretty deep. It was painful but he thought it was because of the knife thing to get the previous one out. He went to a dr and he was unable to do it with out surgery. This happened at a game and the FPS was 400 on that gun that shot him. So yes it will break skin. Next time you see hellboy ask about the face shot. The Bb is still in his cheek. This happened about 6 months ago.

[Payback]

There is a simple answer to why Insurance companies are now requiring airsoft fields to use full face protection.

10 years ago, how many insured fields were there compared to today? Insurance companies have gathered data to show that the risk is real to them, and therefore they now require it.

More and more people have gotten hurt by not using full face protection. You may not have, but Insurance doesn't look at one person, they look at thousands.

I just looked up several different companies that offer Airsoft/paintball insurance, and i'm surprised that it's not more strict. Meaning, i'm surprised they aren't requiring ear and neck protection. And no gaps from the goggles to the masks. This is how the applications are wrote online. I played in California at a large field 2 years ago, and they required ear and neck protection.

I guess if you don't like it, then you won't play much. I'm not sure what the milsim promoters use for insurance, if it's just an event based coverage, or if it's year round, but my guess is that they'll move that way also. Insurance companies aren't known for thinking outside the box, If one does it and shows success, the others will eventually follow.