An update on the general rules of the game.

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An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Solid » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:58 pm

So, it's been a hot minute since the general agreed upon rules and regulations as far as FPS limits, safety protective equipment, the whole nine yards has been updated. With a lot of fields beginning to host their own specialized, more restrictive rules, and the weapons systems themselves becoming far more advanced than they were back when those rules were originally written, it might not be a bad idea to revisit the original rule set. The first and biggest thing that comes to mind is this resurgence of HPA systems and those being very ambiguous on what tolerances those are supposed to fall under, often it hearkens back to the day of dudes running around with chopped down CQB M4's with electric box mags. With AP being under new management and ideally the beginning of a new wave of airsoft in the Pacific Northwest, it might not be a bad idea to renegotiate the general rules so people can build their kits around them and keep them in mind for the future.

Anyway, I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on the matter.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Grounded » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:26 am

So, you are wanting to create a "Standard Set" of rules for each class of weaponry? AEG, Spring, HPA etc? That sounds like a brilliant idea. Assuming we are talking about the same thing. The issue i see is game hosts and alike agreeing to the FPS, minimum engagements and other details. There is competition not just at the player level but with game hosts as a unwritten function. Whether they follow it will be the real determining factor. Setting the standard will eliminate the "i didn't know" rule and forces players to follow a single doctrine. I like it. Hopefully this idea will pick up steam and becomes a reality.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Solid » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:35 am

Well technically we HAVE one around here somewhere, but it hasn't been touched in like a decade. The game has changed a ton since then, so I don't know who we have to wrangle up but there definitely needs to be an update to the general framework.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Grounded » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:06 pm

Agreed, thats something to bring up to the field owners and AP staff. Great idea! I will do some research and see where it goes.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Cyclops » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:12 pm

Keep in mind that insurance companies are different and have different set rules on airsoft guns.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Typhon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:07 pm

Hi. Haven't said much in a while, but I figure since the PNW is where I play, I should at least try to contribute in some way. I like the idea of a "standardized" set of parameters for guns, and ROE, but I think we'd have to get all event promoters on one accord with the idea.

Considering there aren't that many event promoters, I think this can happen. Go for it.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Grounded » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:19 pm

Yup! Right with ya man!
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Cruz FoxHound » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:58 am

Hey Solid,

This could be a good thing to put together. Have you thought about specifics & what might be positive changes that don't have negative impact on the playing experience? What are other players in the US & around the world doing that we could put to use in our games?

Thanks for sharing your idea!
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Solid » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:44 pm

The biggest glaring issue I have is the growing use of HPA systems I've seen lately. Those things can be total uncontrolled nightmares in the wrong hands. As far as FPS goes, I don't know if we can/want to shift those values too much, but I know the average speed of gats nowadays is much higher than it used to be. Stuff like that I think should be looked at.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Junto » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:37 pm

Existing AP limits are viewable under the stickied thread here: http://airsoftpacific.com/page.php?p=safety

Existing limits are as follows:
Standard 6mm .20g BBs
CQB/Indoor - All under 350 fps (1.13j)
Fully/Semi Automatics - 400 fps (1.5j)
Semi-Auto DMR (full auto disabled) - 475fps (2.1j)
Sniper Rifles (Bolt Action ONLY) - 550 FPS (2.8j)
*Limits Measured with .20g BB

I don't suggest making any changes to those limits. We just need a limit for HPA weapons (I'd recommend lower than 400 with a .2) and a requirement for a tournament lock. Some fields also still seem to be under the impression that you can chrono accurately with any weight of BB, but here's the existing sticky with a guide to the FPS each weight of BB needs to be at to still chrono under the standard 400/1.49 joule limit for AEGs. There's some discussion of the involved physics as well for folks not in the know.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11468

The gun truck lost a rear windshield to a malfunctioning HPA gun while out at Rilea last year. Personally, I think they're alright for a few tasks (machine guns and crew-served weapons, as well as sniper rifles), but I can only sneer at people who install them into AEG bodies. I have never experienced worse overshooting in my airsoft career. If they can't fire in short bursts, someone should cut their hose line. I can't go out in less than an overbuilt helmet anymore to play a sport that started out as perfectly safe with just ANSI rated shooting glasses and 0 face protection. We definitely need a set of ROE for dealing specifically with high pressure air systems. We lock in the FPS at least. I'd like to lock ROF to whatever is closest to the real weapon's rate of fire, as well. No more 50 BBs per second.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Grounded » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:42 pm

Great point!
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Norseman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:06 am

Why would you have special rules for HPA?

Make the HPA guys conform to the existing laws. Simple. That involves a tournament lock.

If it's decided that ROF should be limited, then that should apply to everyone. AEG's can be smoking fast as well.

Lastly OP coordinators can have a huge impact on game play. With mag restrictions, require semi auto fire and ammo resupply it would be very easy to keep over shooting to a minimum. Allow each squad to only have one SAW style full auto, high capacity weapon for supressive fire.

Some clubs break down their FPS limits based on style of weapon as well. For example, they will allow SAW style weapons 450 FPS because they want to reward the guy willing to pack a 15 lbs AEG around all day. Gives him a bit more range. Versus a MP5 with a box mag which isn't realistic.

Others base it on real steel caliber. A FN FAL would have a higher FPS limit than a M4 would for example.

It's all been done before guys, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, I would research some rule sets across the country and pick out what works for you.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Solid » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Norseman wrote:Why would you have special rules for HPA?

Make the HPA guys conform to the existing laws. Simple. That involves a tournament lock.

If it's decided that ROF should be limited, then that should apply to everyone. AEG's can be smoking fast as well.

Lastly OP coordinators can have a huge impact on game play. With mag restrictions, require semi auto fire and ammo resupply it would be very easy to keep over shooting to a minimum. Allow each squad to only have one SAW style full auto, high capacity weapon for supressive fire.

Some clubs break down their FPS limits based on style of weapon as well. For example, they will allow SAW style weapons 450 FPS because they want to reward the guy willing to pack a 15 lbs AEG around all day. Gives him a bit more range. Versus a MP5 with a box mag which isn't realistic.

Others base it on real steel caliber. A FN FAL would have a higher FPS limit than a M4 would for example.

It's all been done before guys, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, I would research some rule sets across the country and pick out what works for you.


We aren't reinventing the wheel. We're talking about updating the rules, like mandating tournament locks for HPA systems, which I don't know how that got lost in between the beginning and end of your post. HPA's weren't a thing really when the original rules were established. Like you said with the MP5 box mags, the HPA systems feel very reminiscent to those days with that specific issue. The current rule set is very vague when it comes to all of that and needs to be updated.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Norseman » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:27 pm

Solid wrote:
Norseman wrote:Why would you have special rules for HPA?

Make the HPA guys conform to the existing laws. Simple. That involves a tournament lock.

If it's decided that ROF should be limited, then that should apply to everyone. AEG's can be smoking fast as well.

Lastly OP coordinators can have a huge impact on game play. With mag restrictions, require semi auto fire and ammo resupply it would be very easy to keep over shooting to a minimum. Allow each squad to only have one SAW style full auto, high capacity weapon for supressive fire.

Some clubs break down their FPS limits based on style of weapon as well. For example, they will allow SAW style weapons 450 FPS because they want to reward the guy willing to pack a 15 lbs AEG around all day. Gives him a bit more range. Versus a MP5 with a box mag which isn't realistic.

Others base it on real steel caliber. A FN FAL would have a higher FPS limit than a M4 would for example.

It's all been done before guys, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, I would research some rule sets across the country and pick out what works for you.


We aren't reinventing the wheel. We're talking about updating the rules, like mandating tournament locks for HPA systems, which I don't know how that got lost in between the beginning and end of your post. HPA's weren't a thing really when the original rules were established. Like you said with the MP5 box mags, the HPA systems feel very reminiscent to those days with that specific issue. The current rule set is very vague when it comes to all of that and needs to be updated.



What I'm saying is that other clubs have already addressed this problem. It may be worth it to check out how other clubs have dealt with it and pick out what you like or don't.

I was not trying to be disrespectful, AP and I go all the way back, and I want to see you guys succeed in the future.
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Re: An update on the general rules of the game.

Postby Solid » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:21 am

Ah okay makes more sense, thanks for clearing up. Yeah it's more up to the event coordinators and the insurance companies what they want to keep under wraps, but I'm sure that crowd will figure something out.
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