Your Sidearm

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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ogrejager » Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:46 am

ClownBaby wrote:Nark, your pistol would stay cleaner if you ran it on yer chest.
Also shorter draw equals faster draw. Bang-Bang!


Right, that's why so many people carry their pistols on their chest. Oh, wait, nobody does. Okay, that's not true. Fishermen, in Alaska, who are wearing waders and are worried about bears carry pistols that way. I've even got one...for when I'm in Alaska, with a .44, fishing, wearing waders, and worried about bears.

A pistol on your chest stays cleaner...until you go prone.

Also, pistol on your chest is NOT a faster draw. Think through the hand motions for drawing from the chest versus drawing from the belt. The hand/arm motions are tremendously quicker/cleaner from the waist. To say different shows you've probably not carried a pistol much more than at an airsoft game and/or have little formal training.

EDIT: I'm told there's a place for chest mounted pistols if you're in full gear and mounted (not MOUTed). So, I guess, if there's a vehicle and you're a rider, they do that sometimes.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Nark » Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:52 am

ogrejager wrote:
ClownBaby wrote:Nark, your pistol would stay cleaner if you ran it on yer chest.
Also shorter draw equals faster draw. Bang-Bang!


Right, that's why so many people carry their pistols on their chest. Oh, wait, nobody does. Okay, that's not true. Fishermen, in Alaska, who are wearing waders and are worried about bears carry pistols that way. I've even got one...for when I'm in Alaska, with a .44, fishing, wearing waders, and worried about bears.

A pistol on your chest stays cleaner...until you go prone.

Also, pistol on your chest is NOT a faster draw. Think through the hand motions for drawing from the chest versus drawing from the belt. The hand/arm motions are tremendously quicker/cleaner from the waist. To say different shows you've probably not carried a pistol much more than at an airsoft game and/or have little formal training.

EDIT: I'm told there's a place for chest mounted pistols if you're in full gear and mounted (not MOUTed). So, I guess, if there's a vehicle and you're a rider, they do that sometimes.


A pistol on your chest can be a faster draw if you've practiced the motions and done it for years. There's no bringing it up, only slightly to the side and out to the front. My problem with the belt holster is my BDU/combat shirt covers it/get's caught when I try to holster it. If you rock a one point sling for your rifle simply move the holster closer to your offhand so it's centered in the space that sling creates when you were it. That furthers it from where you would normally shoulder your rifle. With practice it could also increase your transition time from rifle to pistol simply by lowering your rifle with your off hand and drawing your pistol and then either letting your rifle fall to your side and meeting your other hand on the grip or if you're skilled enough shoot one handed.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Cruz FoxHound » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:07 am

W-H-A-T-E-V-E-R-!

THIS is a sidearm:
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... and it stays on the SIDE of my LEG and then goes into YOUR CHEST (or back, more often, really)
(p.s., it's rubber)
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ogrejager » Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:08 pm

Nark wrote:A pistol on your chest can be a faster draw if you've practiced the motions and done it for years.


...and if you put the same amount of practice time into a belt draw, you'll be quicker. Most of the time a guy draws a pistol, he doesn't have his hands up by his face/chest. The draw from the belt, to a shooting stance will be quicker than moving your arm up, drawing sideways, and straightening the arm. There's a reason few of us with CHLs use shoulder holsters. They're slower.

But, whatever, wear your pistol how ever you want to. Unless you're Rentax, they're just for show, anyway.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ClownBaby » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:12 pm

Narco, if you're asking if the two-strap style drop thighs are better, wouldn't know, haven't tried one. But that's the whole reason I got away from them, way too uncomfortable. And unless your running something like the old Bianchi M9 holster with the lid/flap, your just asking for dirt and debris in your pistol. (same with open-topped rifle mag pouches, I see people running their mags with the feeding end up, stupid) That is of course, if you're getting prone, or laying on your side.

And Narc, think about where your hands are/will be when the transition starts (whether that's cuz you want to, or have to because of primary failure) that's where your holster should be.

I just throw my pistol in the pouch behind my primary mags, lanyarded of course.
Works great, unless your mission impossiblin' upside down. :D
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Rentax » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:00 pm

If you practice anything enough it will be faster than when you started, but comparing a draw from a chest holster, hip holster or a thigh rig the draw is still 2 actions. 1) out of the holster, 2) punch out. I run my Mk23 with the can on it which means my gun is almost 17 inches long, my draw has to start at my thigh rig and stop at my armpit. Your draw starts at you chest and stops where? I know when step 1 is done, my hand hits my arm pit and stops, there's no question if the gun is out of the holster at that point, I'm moving on to step 2. And if we are comparing apples to apples that means you have a 17 inch gun on your chest and the draw from the holster would be about the same distance and you would not have your gun on target any faster than I would.
However on the flip side of that yes a smaller pistol could be drawn faster, but you're still going to have the problem of when is the pistol fully out of your holster to turn it 90 degrees before you are on target. My draw hits may armpit and I punch out. When do you punch out? How much force do you have to use to draw and be ready with your gun on target? Will that change if your in a life threatening situation? My draw doesn't change, no matter the gun, no matter the situation. Thigh, armpit, out. This is where you will loose

Now if your in an area where large prey animals might be hunting you, Mt lions, bears, cougars, and if they get the drop on you you want to still be able to get to your gun by all mean carry one on your chest, or if your in the waiters waist deep in the water and still want to keep your weapon accessible, mount it to your chest, heck your in a vehicle wearing body armor that is going to make drawing from your hip or leg funky as shit or damn near impossible absolutely wear it on your chest. But if it was better, faster, or made things more manageable you would see far more of it from the special forces groups, you would see far more of it in LE and you would see far more of it across the board. But it's not that common, because it's not "better" It has it's advantages in some situations, but it's disadvantages are also very apparent. Also if your not wearing a plate carrier to distribute the weight of your draw across your chest your probably not getting the gun out of a kydex holster that way.

Just as a side note as you draw your weapon from your chest where is it pointing? Cause my weapon isn't pointing at anyone until I point it.

Lastly, Narc if your going to dummy cord your pistol, you really don't want to use para cord. Most pistol retention devices are with a product that will stretch out and then get smaller, so it's not constantly in your way or getting caught on things as you walk through the woods. It's there so if your pistol drops you still have it, not to pull your pistol out after it gets caught on something. And unless you have t-rex arms your going to want at least 2 feet of cord. that's a 1 foot loop just hanging off you waiting to snag on a door knob or a tree branch. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ClownBaby » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:04 am

Retractable lanyards, are smaller closed than the old phone cord style ones, keeping all the cord on a spring loaded spool, inside a box. Less snagging.

And if nobody else runs a pistol on their chest, then how come there hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures on the web, and a slew of products meant just for that?

Just like the last time we had this conversation, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Nark » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:31 am

ogrejager wrote:
Nark wrote:A pistol on your chest can be a faster draw if you've practiced the motions and done it for years.


...and if you put the same amount of practice time into a belt draw, you'll be quicker. Most of the time a guy draws a pistol, he doesn't have his hands up by his face/chest. The draw from the belt, to a shooting stance will be quicker than moving your arm up, drawing sideways, and straightening the arm. There's a reason few of us with CHLs use shoulder holsters. They're slower.

But, whatever, wear your pistol how ever you want to. Unless you're Rentax, they're just for show, anyway.


Well if you're running a rifle and have to transition to your pistol your hands are gonna be up by your chest/face because you're aiming your rifle while you move so it's very logical to remove your hand from your rifle grip while holding the barrel and simultaneously drawing your pistol and slinging your rifle.

Rentax wrote:Lastly, Narc if your going to dummy cord your pistol, you really don't want to use para cord. Most pistol retention devices are with a product that will stretch out and then get smaller, so it's not constantly in your way or getting caught on things as you walk through the woods. It's there so if your pistol drops you still have it, not to pull your pistol out after it gets caught on something. And unless you have t-rex arms your going to want at least 2 feet of cord. that's a 1 foot loop just hanging off you waiting to snag on a door knob or a tree branch. Just my 2 cents.


Good call on the cord that needs to retract, I didn't think of that. I don't need a paracord leash getting caught on my weapon sight as I bring my rifle up.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ogrejager » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:44 am

ClownBaby wrote:And if nobody else runs a pistol on their chest, then how come there hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures on the web, and a slew of products meant just for that?

Just like the last time we had this conversation, there's more than one way to skin a cat.


1. You go count all the chest rig pictures on the net and I'll count the pictures of belt carried pistols. Who do you think'll have a higher number?

2. Yes, there is more than one way to skin any animal, even human beings. So quit telling everyone that your way is the best way. Frankly tired of hearing you tout it as "the way."
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Jester316 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:00 am

Nark, try something:

Hold a rifle in a shooting stance. Now, let go of the pistol grip and lower the gun with your non-dominate hand. While that is happening, try to draw a gun from a chest holster. You'll notice that the rifle is right in the way of the draw. Whether you use a single point "wolf hook" style, 2 point, MAGPUL, or 3 point sling, the rifle will be in the way. Now, if you are a special snowflake like I am and shoot rifle one way and handgun the other (Me: Rifle right hand, handgun left hand), than your gun won't be in the way from a single point sling.

As has been said: there is a time and a place for chest mounted pistols. That time and place are for when you can't have a belt or thigh mounted pistol.

ClownBaby: I can guarantee I can get shots on target faster from a belt or thigh mounted holster than from a chest mounted. Because I can draw and "hip shoot" while bringing the gun up into extension.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Steve » Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:39 am

A couple of points:
1) Granted, my Intel is dated. Was in the 'Stan mid 2006 - mid 2008. Ran across 2 types of folks with chestish pistol holsters. Fobbit Bras (shoulder holsters) and vest-mounted holsters, usually worn by fat-bodies gunners who couldn't reach past their guts to grab a pistol out of a leg rig in the turret. Again, my experience is limited because I was out on an ETT for most of my trip.

2) I run my primary on a single-point Wolf Hook off my dominant shoulder and carry my secondary on my dominant thigh. If my primary fails, I shove it down and back with my right hand. My left hand goes out in front of me to either push back a guy I'm in contact with or to prepare to shove me off a wall or tossing a flash bang or providing counterbalance (read: flailing around wildly). My right hand then grabs for my secondary. I rotate my hip to trap the primary out of the way while stepping forward with my left foot, which, coincidentally drops me into a good shooting stance. Right hand comes up, left hand wraps in support, and I start shooting. I'm also generally communicating to the rest of my team that my primary failed, usually with a lot of profanity.

For me, using a chest holster means sacrificing ammo for my primary and complicating the hell out of my draw stroke. As my grandpappy used to say "there's more ways to skin a cat than trappin' his head in a boot jack and yankin' on his nasty ole tail". Find what works for you and then practice the hell out of it.

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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Rentax » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:26 pm

ClownBaby wrote:Retractable lanyards, are smaller closed than the old phone cord style ones, keeping all the cord on a spring loaded spool, inside a box. Less snagging.

And if nobody else runs a pistol on their chest, then how come there hundreds, maybe thousands of pictures on the web, and a slew of products meant just for that?

Just like the last time we had this conversation, there's more than one way to skin a cat.


Because like we have stated there is a time and place for it, and your seeing these photos out of context. Most of the photos I have seen of people with chest mounted pistols are NOT carring a rifle or even have a rifle sling on. The 1 that I have seen the guy is not wearing his sling right. My opinion is when wearing a rifle sling, because it's not a controllable item, there is as much likely hood of your pistol getting caught in it as there is for it to be out of your way, and that is not a chance I would care to take.

Clownbaby, you love the phrase "there is more than one way to skin a cat" and I can appreciate the sentiment, however if a person skins a cat and comes away with 5 separate pieces and another person comes away with one nice clean cat pelt it could be argued that one man's process is better than another's. There is also a saying "use the right tool for the job." You probably don't skin a cat in your garage the same way to do in the back of a moving truck, you have to adapt to your environment and use a different method. Does this mean when you go back to your garage you use the same method as on the truck? No, because that's no longer the environment your in.
Your argument is I've seen it in pictures, and they sell items to do it, so clearly it's a better way. Our argument is there is a time and place for it and it works well for those times and places, however outside those times and places there may be a better way of doing it. But you arent listening to our argument, because you think we dont know what we are talking about.
So yes there is more than one way to skin a cat, but that doesn't make our arguments invalid.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ogrejager » Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:36 pm

Rentax wrote: But you arent listening to our argument, because you think we dont know what we are talking about.


Right. Who here carried a pistol as part of job for years? Who here still carries a pistol regularly? When was the last time one of you got groceries or went to the doctor's office (that, btw, was a fun conversation when I had to explain how my weight wasn't really accurate)? Did you carry a chest rig then?
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby ClownBaby » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:51 pm

Didn't say my way was the best or only way.

Not gonna stop giving my opinion ever, never... gonna... stop.

I have carried a sidearm, for work, for over two decades.(you already knew that) Everywhere I go, even the doctors office, and yes, sometimes it's in a chest holster, (an old radio chest rig) because I ride bike, and don't want to wreck on my piece.

Let's move on.
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Re: Your Sidearm

Postby Cameron Zombie » Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:00 pm

ClownBaby wrote:
sometimes it's in a chest holster, (an old radio chest rig) because I ride bike


That's a valid reason to wear one in a chest config. However, you separated that instance from every other time you carry, so I can assume you carry somewhere on your waist in other circumstances? Why is it then when you're doing your job or taking a walk you carry on your waist but for airsoft you're worried about it getting mucked up (it won't) and pushing that issue so much? That's everyone's complaint.
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