DMR Build Help

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DMR Build Help

Postby Screach » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:49 am

Hey guys, so I am currently working on a DMR build, what I'm going for is a long range, high powered, semi-auto DMR, with good trigger response. I have assembled a parts list, and was wondering if I should add anything else or change something I already have. The base gun is an A&K SR25 Here's the list:

Prometheus tight bore: 6.03
King Kong Elite mosfet
G&P m170 Devil motor
Guarder PSG-1 sp150 spring
11.4 1300Mah Li-po Battery

Also I have a list of externals, but the only one that really makes a difference is the 20" replacement outer barrel. This would allow for a longer inner barrel. Externals are as follows:

Daniels Defense 20" outer barrel
Magpul PRS Stock
G&P Target Grip
G&P NSW Mock Silencer
Sniper Trigger Guard
Harris Bi-Pod

And in the end It would make the gun look similar to this:
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby timmah » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:57 pm

I am going to go out on a limb, and suggest you go the other way. Why not downgrade your gearbox to sub-350fps, and try a Tanio Koba twist barrel? I have one in my m4, last chrono'ed at 329fps, and it reaches 320+ ft (measured on g-maps at SniperzDen). Go with a Madbull Ultimate Hop-up, "H-nub" and a 7.4v lipo, and the rest of the external parts you listed.


Just my .02 ;)
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Screach » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:18 pm

Why would I downgrade the gearbox? I mean if im going for range, power and reliability... :?
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby timmah » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:22 pm

you downgrade so that you can use the TK Twist barrels. They wont work on guns shooting over 350fps. Spot on reliable, and much more range than a 400+fps semi-auto will give you. I wouldn't have suggested it as an option, if it didn't work. You can come out to LOW this weekend and shoot a few rounds with my m4 if you have any doubts about how well it works.

EDIT: info on the barrels... http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/lofiv ... 47334.html
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Screach » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:09 pm

Alright i'll look into it, but I most likely will go with the Prometheus.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Alien_Hunter » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Do they even make TK products anymore?
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby code789 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Alien_Hunter wrote:Do they even make TK products anymore?

yes they do its just rarely imported imported, try redwolf
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Switchback » Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:20 pm

Screach wrote:Alright i'll look into it, but I most likely will go with the Prometheus.



Even a cursory glance over the link Tim posted, coupled with the fact you wouldn't need half the crap you want to install, or have many of the problems that come with overbuilding Airsoft guns should turn you towards the TK barrel...
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Spartanacus » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:21 am

There are no problems 'overbuilding' an airsoft gun if you build and tune it properly. And this doesn't need to be expensive.

Looking at the link provided shows some pretty extensive explanation for why the Tanio barrels work, except that it's based on the false assumption that the bb bounces around inside the barrel before leaving. If you have a poorly tuned hop-up, it will do this. However, a properly installed hop will cause the bb to ride along the top of the barrel, half slipping, half rolling with the backspin provided by the hop.

The ideal is to have a bb exit the barrel with a rotational axis parallel to the ground. This isn't ballistics, rifling doesn't help when you're trying to get a little piece of plastic to spin backwards.

To actually answer OP's question, your list looks fine. Good choice of barrel. I could go on and on about how long tightbores are worse, not better, but a 6.03 450mm is all you'll need. The externals are purely personal choice. The single most important piece of any build is the hop-up, which you make no reference to. You'll find the most benefit researching that. I recommend the R-hop, although I've heard good things about the J-hop, and while I haven't actually tried it myself yet, I would be concerned about durability with molded silicone rubber.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby code789 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:22 am

Spartanacus wrote:There are no problems 'overbuilding' an airsoft gun if you build and tune it properly. And this doesn't need to be expensive.

Looking at the link provided shows some pretty extensive explanation for why the Tanio barrels work, except that it's based on the false assumption that the bb bounces around inside the barrel before leaving. If you have a poorly tuned hop-up, it will do this. However, a properly installed hop will cause the bb to ride along the top of the barrel, half slipping, half rolling with the backspin provided by the hop.

The ideal is to have a bb exit the barrel with a rotational axis parallel to the ground. This isn't ballistics, rifling doesn't help when you're trying to get a little piece of plastic to spin backwards.

To actually answer OP's question, your list looks fine. Good choice of barrel. I could go on and on about how long tightbores are worse, not better, but a 6.03 450mm is all you'll need. The externals are purely personal choice. The single most important piece of any build is the hop-up, which you make no reference to. You'll find the most benefit researching that. I recommend the R-hop, although I've heard good things about the J-hop, and while I haven't actually tried it myself yet, I would be concerned about durability with molded silicone rubber.


most of your doubt about the TK twist has been answer in the thread timmah linked, this is entirely on the science of ballistics why wouldn't it be? things are flying through the air. it doesn't take a genius to know that the shape of the bb will cause inconsistency when it is in contact with anything such as a barrel. the groves inside the TK barrel create a cushion of air that centers the bb all the way from the hopup till it leaves the barrel.

jacking up FPS is just a fad that inexperienced players keep going to. sure it takes a lot of tech work to get everything right and its a great piece to show off. but the experienced players will always go with something that works and saves money(except for load outs)
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Spartanacus » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:40 pm

Well, OP asked about his build, not about four-year old gimmick technology supported only by anecdotal 'evidence'.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Switchback » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:54 am

code789 wrote:jacking up FPS is just a fad that inexperienced players keep going to. sure it takes a lot of tech work to get everything right and its a great piece to show off. but the experienced players will always go with something that works and saves money(except for load outs)



@Spartanacus:
Not discrediting the quality that can be achieved with all those upgrades. I'm just going straight to Code's reaction here. If you search "DMR" here, you'll see an overwhelming amount of these, people wanting to crank the energy of their guns up past not only the legal limit for AEG's (yes, I understand DMR's can have 475fps, but just bear with me) but also perpetuating the myth that an FPS limit is actually an FPS target.

rant?:
I'm sick of seeing people crank their guns up to 399 FPS and hosing with their high-caps. You don't need to shoot at EXACTLY 350 to play indoor, 280 is more than enough to get the job done, your gun will last forever (and people playing won't complain when you tag them at two meters). It's a downwards (or rather upwards) domino effect: everybody shooting 350 is out-powered by the guy shooting 401, so naturally we whip it out and pump ours up to 402. It doesn't help with a lot of the big online retailers doing stuff like this:
http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/Categor ... %5e450+FPS
and marketing it like this high-powered hose is superior to a well-constructed gun shooting 330.
Now, I'm all for sniper rifles being employed as an asset to the team. I don't mind when somebody (usually, by the nature of the endeavor, over 21) takes hours of TLC and a little bit of dough and a lot of know how, and tags me with 500+ FPS. No problem. But somebody indiscriminately firing at the DMR limit (or target, depending on your philosophy) degrades the role of the sniper. I think it would be better if we all had guns around the 330-350 range, really encouraging construction of guns with good hop up/etc., and less of this "crank it" mindset.
/rant?



TL/DR: I'm not a fan of these new-fangled DMR's and I frankly don't see the appeal. If you get a DMR, you're encouraged to camp like a sniper but not set up a hide, use stealth, fire selectively, etc. You've got all the power while employing none of the skill and suffering none of the disadvantages. The DMR is like the sniper rifle for a lazy person. The DMR is like the standard rifle for the lazy person.***


**Okay, there are obviously people who aren't lazy, and employ them differently and all that jazz. I read through almost every post on this forum on a daily basis and I've seen damn few a) actually create them and b) focus on using them in a squad element to increase firepower.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Matt » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:00 am

Switchback wrote:TL/DR: I'm not a fan of these new-fangled DMR's and I frankly don't see the appeal. If you get a DMR, you're encouraged to camp like a sniper but not set up a hide, use stealth, fire selectively, etc. You've got all the power while employing none of the skill and suffering none of the disadvantages. The DMR is like the sniper rifle for a lazy person. The DMR is like the standard rifle for the lazy person.***[/size]


Quite possibly the smartest thing anybody under 18 on this forum has said. There's something totally lame about a bunch of dudes standing around IN THE OPEN lobbing rounds at each other at 150 feet who are afraid to get winded and actually flank, or afraid to get dirty and take some cover.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Spartanacus » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:28 am

Switchback wrote:Not discrediting the quality that can be achieved with all those upgrades. I'm just going straight to Code's reaction here. If you search "DMR" here, you'll see an overwhelming amount of these, people wanting to crank the energy of their guns up past not only the legal limit for AEG's (yes, I understand DMR's can have 475fps, but just bear with me) but also perpetuating the myth that an FPS limit is actually an FPS target.

There are quite a few myths running around in the airsoft world. I could also discuss the flaws with FPS limits that are universally accepted at fields. But in general, a higher FPS will send a BB farther, it's physics. And there are tactical advantages to having superior range. I can't keep up with the 17 year-olds out there, so I take an advantage where I can. If that makes me an inferior player in other players eyes, well, I guess I'll have to get over that somehow :)

Now for my rant. I see this a lot here, a person will ask a specific technical question, and the responses vary from "why would you want to do that?" to "well, I don't know but here is my ill-informed tangent based on what I read on KWA's website". Don't believe me? Look at this thread and you'll see that I'm the only one that answered any of Screach's questions. And I think that stems from a lack of airsmithing expertise here, where spending $1,000 on a milsim kit is totally rational but opening a gearbox is bad because you'll let the fairies out.
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Re: DMR Build Help

Postby Alien_Hunter » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:48 am

Yeah if you don't want to run your gun efficiently then you will have crank up the FPS. As a humane airsofter, I used heavier BB's to get range instead of jumping up the FPS just to be a tool with a hot gun. I can too, I have an m140 sitting right next to me.
Last edited by Alien_Hunter on Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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