Revolution Gearbox from SYSTEMA

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Revolution Gearbox from SYSTEMA

Postby Knuckles » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:59 am

SYSTEMA has released information on it's new "Revolution" gearbox. This is some exciting state-of-the-art technology and could quite possibly be "the better mousetrap" that we have all been waiting for.

I had the chance to speak with a SYSTEMA distributor this morning and Airsoft Pacific has been promised a unit for review when they are released for distribution. There is no time frame set at this point so until it is delivered, enjoy the press release courtesy of SYSTEMA USA.

Systema wrote:Image

State-of-the-Art Technology — The SYSTEMA Revolution represents the pinnacle of AEG gearbox development while maintaining 100% Ver.2 compatiblity! » Guaranteed 100% backward-compatible with Tokyo Marui (TM) AEG bodies.
» Direct drop-in replacement for many other AEGs that complies with the TM Version-2 Mecha Box Specification.
» Advanced fire-control electronics and power-regulating MOSFET circuits.
» New loading mechanism / nozzle design.
» Hand-tuned high-output motor precisely matching the new gearbox's gear ratio.
» Extremely tight manufacturing tolerance ensures superior performance, shot after shot.
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Advanced Firing Control — The SYSTEMA E.C.U. (Electronic Control Unit) is a direct decendent of the PTW's fire control unit, specifically tuned for the Revolution: » Factory pre-programmed electronic trigger system.
» Optical sensor array constantly monitors gearbox operation, precisely applying power (and braking) to the motor so that the gearbox will always cycle completely at every trigger pull. This new function entirely eliminates the need for anti-reversal latch.
» Using optical sensor to precisely determine the position/rotations of the gears, the Revolution is also capable of providing the world's most reliable 3-shot burst operation. No more fiddling with inconsistent "timer based" burst mechanism!
» MOSFET regulated power delivery circuit ensures stable and consistent performance.
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Performance and Reliability — Innovation is only half the story. The SYSTEMA Revolution will also far exceed the current standard in terms of performance and reliability: » New nozzle design eliminates breakage-prone (and decade-old) tappet plates.
» High-strength, all steel gear set ensures reliable operation year after year.
» Full-length steel rack gear greatly extends piston life.
» Top quality components used throughout.
» Factory-backed U.S. warranty when installed by a certified SYSTEMA Gunsmith.
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SYSTEMA Revolution Frequently Asked Questions

Q. When will the Revolution be available for order?
A. Final R&D is scheduled to be completed by the end of March 2008, with tooling and production to begin shortly thereafter.

Q. What is the retail price?
A. The final retail price has not yet been set, and may differ from country to country due to logistic cost, import duty, tax, and other factors. However we are working diligently to offer the Revolution at the best possible price. Please check with your region's retailer / distributor for your local retail price.

Q. What is "Version 2 Compatible? Isn't the Revolution a brand-new product?
A. "Version 2" refers to the second generation of Tokyo Marui's mecha box (gearbox) design, which is used in their M4, M16, MP5, and G3 series airsoft rifles. However, internally speaking the Revolution shares very little with the TM Version 2 mecha box. When we say "Version 2 Compatible" it is in reference to the external shape only; meaning the Revolution will fit inside any AEG body that is designed to accept a TM Version 2 Mecha Box. You should not attempt to install TM Version 2 components inside the Revolution.

Q. Does that mean the Revolution will work in my Classic Army (or insert name of your favorite AEG manufacturer) M4?
A. As long as the manufacturer strictly adheres to the Tokyo Marui design specifications, the Revolution will fit snugly and perfectly. However, throughout the years we have learned that as manufacturing processes change, some AEGs have morphed slightly from their original shape (be it due to design changes or deviation in manufacturing tolerances) that some dimensions have becomes slightly out-of-spec. Therefore, the Revolution may fit perfectly in some brands of AEGs but require modification on other brands. Since Tokyo Marui technically has never officially allowed anyone to "clone" their mecha box, these variations are impossible to predict. However, in light of compatibility concerns, many reputable AEG manufacturers have attempted to keep their AEGs "in-spec" with TM mecha box standards whenever possible. As of this writing, most mainstream M4/M16 AEGs on the market will accept the Revolution with no (or very minor) modifications. Once the Revolution is officially released, we will compile a compatibility list based on user feedback.

Q. Is there going to be a "Version 3 Compatible" Revolution?
A. As of this writing there are no development plans for a "Version-3 Compatible" Revolution, however we do not rule out future possibilities. Once the new product has hit the ground running, we will have more R&D resources that we can devote to other projects.

Q. What is "Electronic Trigger Control" and why is it cool?
A. Traditionally, all AEGs have used mechanical trigger controls where the trigger simply serves as the "on/off" switch. To achieve semi-auto operation, a mechanical lever disconnects the trigger's electrical contact based on sector gear position. This mechanism works but has several drawbacks. First of which being mechanical components wear out over time. Many older AEGs have unreliable (or non-existent) semi-auto function because the "knob" on the sector gear and/or the "cut-off lever" are so worn-out. Secondly, mechanical cut-offs are inconsistent, leading to undesirable piston position between each shot. Thirdly, because the traditional design solely relies on the trigger as the electrical conduit, if the user "tap" the trigger too briefly it may cause the mecha box to only cycle half-way, leaving the piston "cocked" without firing a BB (which can increase the risk of accidental discharge in some instances). Forth, the trigger's electrical contact, especially when using high-power upgrades, are subject to heavy electrical loads which will frequently result in undesirable sparks. The sparks may not cause any fire hazard, but often create carbon deposits on the switch assembly. This effect can completely disable the trigger in a very short period of time. By replacing the decade-old trigger system with cutting edge electronic trigger, all of the previous drawbacks are eliminated while adding advanced functions to the trigger.

Q. What "Advanced Functions" are added with the Electronic Trigger?
A. First of all, the mecha box will always perform a complete cycle whenever a user pulls the trigger. This feature greatly improves realism as it operates far closer to a real firearm, without the need to practice "trigger hold" (keeping the trigger depressed until the mecha box completes its cycle). Furthermore, we are able to introduce "true" 3-shot burst function to a TM-style AEG. True 3-shot burst traditionally had only been available on gas blow back airsoft guns (via mechanical lever), or on our own PTW using the same electronic trigger control. All other "burst" feature use either a timer (such as the TM SIG series) or some kind of device that monitors the voltage fluctuations during firing. Both approaches had their drawbacks and were never reliable enough to always fire 3 shots when you needed it.

Q. How did you achieve Electronic Trigger Control?
A. The SYSTEMA Electronic Control Unit (ECU) employs advanced computer algorisms and optical sensors to detect the position of the sector gear, and instructs the Switch Device to apply voltage to the motor (including reversed current for braking effect) at very precise moments. By the combination of advanced monitoring and power delivery, we were able to achieve instantaneous trigger response and reliable, complete cycles every time. The technology has been honed and perfected over the years in our PTW product lines, and has proven to work extremely well even in adverse environments.

Q. Why is there no Tappet Plates, and how did you achieve that?
A. The reason we wanted to remove the tappet plate is simple: It is unreliable and prone to breakage. To replace the tappet plate, we designed a new nozzle setup that allows the piston head to grab the rear-end of the nozzle directly. During the piston's withdrawal stage, it will pull the nozzle back allowing the next BB to feed. Once the piston reaches a certain position, it releases the nozzle which springs forward, chambering the BB. Once the piston is released (fired), it grabs the nozzle again and the cycle repeats. This new design achieves a completely linear force on nozzle movement, with zero lateral torque that is common to the old tappet plate design. We found that it is far more reliable than the tappet plate design and we are very satisfied with its performance.
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Q. Why did you choose a 4-gear setup instead of the traditional 3-gear setup?
A. There are several reasons for the 4-gear setup. First of all, by introducing the 4th gear we are able to further expand the gear ratio beyond what is possible with Marui's 3-gear setup. Although this does allow for increased torque, more importantly we are interested in the increased freedom to fine-tune our gear ratios. For example we have developed a specifically tuned motor for the 4-gear Revolution that offers unprecedented trigger response in any Version 2 mecha box. In addition, by minimizing each gear's overall diameter we can reduce each gear's orbital variation under rotation, thus improving gear stability and tooth-mating accuracy. Think about trying to tilt two dinner plates, with one of it being half the size of the other. If you tilt the small plate by 1 degree, its edge might be lifted by 2mm. However, if you tilt the large place (at twice the size) also 1 degree, its edge would be lifted by 4mm instead. The same can be said with using smaller gears; it minimizes the variation, limits vibration, and improves gear mating — resulting in smoother operation.

Q. In regards to the new piston: Very few polycarbonate pistons on the market offer full-length rack gear inserts, because they seem to be unreliable. Why did SYSTEMA use a full-length rack gear?
A. First of all, the full-length metal rack gear inserts are rare among polycarbonate pistons because the distance between the mecha box's main spring and the sector gear simply isn't enough. You can also think of it as the outer wall of the piston are being limited (too thin). In order to install a full-length rack gear successfully in a traditional TM piston, the "base" of the rack gear must be made very thin, or significant materials must be removed from the underside of the polycarbonate piston. Either method compromises the stability and durability of the final piston assembly.
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To illustrate, if you look at the cross-section of a traditional piston with full-length rack gear, you will noticed that the piston is shaped more like a "C" then an "O". This is very undesirable because the piston's side-wall is allowed to flex, especially during impact - and the end result is frequently dislodged rack gears. For the Revolution, what we've done is that instead of "patching" the problem, we addressed it from the root by first reducing both the spring's and spring-guide's diameter, thus allowing us to re-shape the piston's outer wall. With the new design, besides having ample space to fully support the full-length rack gear, we were also able to slightly reduced the overall size of the piston to reduce weight, and thickened the side wall to increase strength. This provides a performance level far exceeding any piston design on the market today.

Q. Is there any drawback on using smaller diameter main spring?
A. Technically, no. Under our extensive R&D testing, we've found that not only does the smaller spring exhibits sufficient resistance to "bucking", they have also shown superior properties against "weakening" (gradual lost of tension after repeated compression / de-compression). This directly translates to more durable springs that maintain a consistent output over their life.

Q. I remember the PTW pistons are shorter then TM pistons. Are the Revolution pistons also shorter then traditional TM pistons?
A. Yes the piston used in the Revolution is shorter then original TM pistons, and we actually also reduced piston travel as well. This decision was in part inspired by modern Formula-1 engines: for them to operate at such extreme RPM while maintaining reasonable reliability (some F-1 engines rotate at nearly 20,000 RPM), a short-stroke engine design must be used. In similar token, we shortened the piston's size and travel in the Revolution to improve operational reliability. When combined with the improved efficiencies gained from other components, we were also able to maintain the same or higher power output (compared to a similarly equipped TM mecha box), while reducing energy consumption and improved trigger response. Since some of the engineering concepts are more complicated, we've prepared a separate white paper for the technical-savvy readers. The technical white paper is available HERE.


Q. Why is SYSTEMA so adamant about using polycarbonate pistons? Wouldn't aluminum pistons work better?
A. Yes aluminum pistons can indeed be used and provide some of the benefits without going through such extensive modification, but aluminum pistons have two major drawbacks: 1) it weights significantly more then polycarbonate, slowing down the cycle rate and robbing performance; and 2) aluminum teeth can never be as strong as the purpose-made steel rack gears installed in our new piston. Some may argue that by using CNC-machined, T-7075 aircraft-grade aluminum and boring holes in key areas can achieve similar (or even better) results, which can be true if executed correctly. However, the benefit (if any) offered by a such a setup cannot be easily justified against the significantly higher cost. We strongly believe that our polycarbonate piston with full-length rack gear provides the best price-to-performance ratio in any piston setup.

Q. Are any of the Revolution's components backward-compatible with traditional TM mecha box design? Why?
A. During initial planning of the Revolution, we made a conscious decision to minimize component-sharing between the Revolution and TM Version-2 mecha box. First of all we do not want any limitations to linger among our engineers by imposing unnecessary "backward compatibility" requirements. Only by letting them "think outside the box" can we develop the ultimate mecha box for our loyal users. Secondly, establishing an entirely new standard for components also offers our users a peace of mind that they may not currently enjoy. To speak more clearly, there are so many "TM compatible mecha box components" out there that we have, unfortunately, come across some very poorly made parts. For the uneducated users, it is very easy to have chosen the wrong parts (be it due to price or other factors) that, for example, may led them to accidentally install a poorly made gear set. Although most of them will seem to work just fine initially, many have been known to prematurely fail or cause damages to other components. By establishing and maintaining all new components for the Revolution, we can minimize the chance of poorly made components getting mixed-in into our user's mecha box. This is very valuable for long-term use, especially when we fully expect our users to rely on their Revolutions for years to come.


*Special thanks to www.z-shot.com for the copy and photographs.
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Postby Matt » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:14 am

This thing looks burly. The piston design is awesome. I would still wonder what the potential would be to strip your gears if you use the wrong battery voltage. I'm sure they'll have a recommended voltage. The PTW was always very specific about which batteries to use.
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Postby Mulisha Mitch » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:23 am

Thats gona cost an arm and a leg, maybe an eye too :shock:

It's awesome how airsoft parts are evolving
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Postby Mono » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:24 am

I'm buying one as soon as they're on the market. Period.
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Well, uh... Yes, that will happen.
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Postby Knuckles » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:27 am

Ballpark rumor is somewhere in the 90 day realm.

Of course...that could mean tomorrow.

Or 2010.
Last edited by Knuckles on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby OX_UDT » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:32 am

thats a smart gearbox idea
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Postby Raging Hormann » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:48 am

Ingenious. systema is now really cool. If I can fit that in a SCAR I will be super happy! Maybe I'll have to buy an M4 :cry:
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Postby Riddick » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:56 am

Big_red wrote:Ingenious. systema is now really cool. If I can fit that in a SCAR I will be super happy! Maybe I'll have to buy an M4 :cry:



it will fit a scar if it fits a M4. SCAR and M4 use version 2 gearbox..
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Postby Raging Hormann » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Yes, but the VFC has a "custom" gearbox. Makes me leery about fitting it properly. I think it will work though For a test, I'll take my "custom" box and put it into my friend's M4. that way I'll be able to tell if it needs any modifications or not. FIRST I NEED THE DAMN THING!

For my estimate on price(Estimate, people)
I wanna say $275~$350.
Just based on what their current mech boxes run for.
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Postby Rogue Reaper » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:50 pm

Christian,

Who did you talk to at "Systema" If you talked to Wallace Lau you if fact did not talk to anyone from Systema. Wallace and Z-shot are a distributor only. Wallace is a friend of Kumi but has been told not to imply that he is with Systema.


There is only 1 english speaking person on Systemas Payroll. And he would not discuss this product with anyone because he does PTW and ONLY PTW. For Millitary and LE.

When thinking about price... Remember you are getting a new motor in the kit, not just a gearbox.

I wish there was not so much confusion of the Systema hierachy.
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Postby Raging Hormann » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:57 pm

MOHR wrote:When thinking about price... Remember you are getting a new motor in the kit, not just a gearbox.

So then around $450 :smile:
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Postby Matt » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:42 pm

You are right Troy, I fixed the article. For somebody who's not supposed to imply he's with Systema, he's been doing that for quite a while now. I remember his signature back in the days when I was reviewing the PTW.
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Postby Knuckles » Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:55 pm

My press release was titled "SYSTEMA USA".

My only goal was to review the gearbox and pass that information to the good people of the Airsoft Pacific community.

Thank you for providing the clarification on the SYSTEMA office politics.

:D
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Postby Sleepy » Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:07 pm

We very much look forward to seeing this on the market. I might have to get one of these, maybe for my MP5. Please keep us updated on anything that comes up. Especially the price!

EDIT: One other thing that might be cool, is having a version that has an MP5-like 4-position selector switch, so you could have a Safe/Single/Burst/Full set-up. Wonder if any companies could make an ICS-compatible lower MP5 receiver for that. Very exciting times.
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Postby Mobius » Wed Feb 20, 2008 5:02 pm

I really like the idea in general and it really is a brilliant design.

my only concern is it just seems to me like its that much more to go wrong. the more electronics that can go wrong the more expensive it is to fix the longer you have to wait to get it fixed the less favorable it is.

know what I mean??
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