California Senate Bill 798, what can we do?

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Postby Catch22 » Mon May 23, 2011 3:55 pm

Wow.. again.

You guys really want a Nanny-State?

I would much rather give the kids a place to play and learn the propper way of treating replicas. Then to ban them and have them playing in parks and empty fields. Shutting them out and being elitists will ensure hazardous situations. Followed by government control. And I don't want either.

Quit being a bunch of internet chodes. You guys aren't like this in person.
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Postby Wisenheimer » Mon May 23, 2011 4:03 pm

Sounds like USHPA. This is the organization that administers ratings for hang gliding and paragliding. Everyone undergoes training. At least, everyone that wants to fly legally, or at a flight park or through a licensed instructor, which is one of the only ways to fly a hang glider or paraglider. You could go get a glider and gear, find a hill or mountaintop and go kill yourself, though if anyone involved with flying such aircraft find out what your doing prepare for some serious backlash. And even physical restraint. The attitude is this...

YOU are not going to KILL MY sport with your irresponsible and dangerous behavior.

This attitude has been adopted after years of maverick flying activity that resulted in see-sawing legislation that continues to this day.

My personal attitude about that subject, if I find you atop a mountain and have no rating, expect me to utterly destroy your craft. I will knock you out cold if I have to. Go ahead and sue me, because I just saved your life, and I'm sure the USHPA legal department will have no problem defending me against you.

ONLY when EVERYBODY takes PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY about the ENTIRE sport does the public turn a positive eye towards such activities.

Airsoft needs an USHPA. It's about including everyone, and promoting safety not to just the people involved with the sport, but to the public at large.
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Postby Ranger Commie » Mon May 23, 2011 4:09 pm

My argument isnt that just because a teen says he's responsible he's auto good. We dont do that to cars or anything else. I vote for Mandatory Gun trainig for all who airsoft. Kids and Adults both. These things are not toys. Learn to use them safely and respectfully or DONT USE THEM!!!
NO just caught Wiesenhowers post.
So yeah basically what he said. If that approach was taken with airsoft I would have no problem and neither would most minors. Those who do could stuff the barrel of there newly bright colored gun up their a$$.
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Postby Catch22 » Mon May 23, 2011 4:16 pm

Wrong! These things are TOYS!!!
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Postby Ranger Commie » Mon May 23, 2011 4:22 pm

Catch22 wrote:Wrong! These things are TOYS!!!

Even though the side of my gun says and I quote. "Warning not a toy".
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Postby JamesW » Mon May 23, 2011 4:25 pm

Universal Commie wrote:
Catch22 wrote:Wrong! These things are TOYS!!!

Even though the side of my gun says and I quote. "Warning not a toy".

Dont talk anymore please youll give the government ideas...
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Postby Ranger Commie » Mon May 23, 2011 4:28 pm

TriggerHappyJ wrote:
Universal Commie wrote:
Catch22 wrote:Wrong! These things are TOYS!!!

Even though the side of my gun says and I quote. "Warning not a toy".

Dont talk anymore please youll give the government ideas...

If it's to train airsofters in proper safety than I say it's a good idea. But the bright a$$ guns are lame and will kill the sport.
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Postby Wisenheimer » Mon May 23, 2011 4:29 pm

Kill the tunnel so the discussion can continue, please.
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Postby shakespeare » Mon May 23, 2011 4:39 pm

Universal Commie wrote:My argument isnt that just because a teen says he's responsible he's auto good. We dont do that to cars or anything else. I vote for Mandatory Gun trainig for all who airsoft. Kids and Adults both. These things are not toys. Learn to use them safely and respectfully or DONT USE THEM!!!
NO just caught Wiesenhowers post.
So yeah basically what he said. If that approach was taken with airsoft I would have no problem and neither would most minors. Those who do could stuff the barrel of there newly bright colored gun up their a$$.

I don't think this is logical.
I think the UK approach is logical, with clubs certifying people to join them, and those people being allowed to buy realistic replicas. Clubs would be able to make fair rules, but if the government starts administering tests to see if someone is "responsible" enough for a toy gun, well, I have a problem with that. 1, I feel that paying government employees to certify airsofters would be an extremely unwise expenditure of tax funds, and 2. Uniform laws are lame.
There could be different clubs all providing different club rules to play at their field. There could be hardcore milsim clubs, regular type clubs, etc.
Think about this though. If the government doesn't have a test to see if you can own a real firearm (apart from a background and check) then why the hell would they test to own a replica (read: toy) firearm?
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Postby Ranger Commie » Mon May 23, 2011 4:48 pm

Yeah that was actually what I meant originally but I didnt know the UK did it that way.
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Postby Miracle » Mon May 23, 2011 4:51 pm

Catch22 wrote:Wow.. again.

You guys really want a Nanny-State?

I would much rather give the kids a place to play and learn the propper way of treating replicas. Then to ban them and have them playing in parks and empty fields. Shutting them out and being elitists will ensure hazardous situations. Followed by government control. And I don't want either.

Quit being a bunch of internet chodes. You guys aren't like this in person.


Nobody's being an elitist. My airsoft community in NW washington polices itself very strictly, and I wasn't allowed to join a group or play on my lonesome until I was 18. They are free-to-play privately owned fields where groups of adults get together for games. If a child gets hurt, their legal guardians could go on to sue the owner of that field because it is their legal responsibility as owner to look after the minor. And because theres such a strict limit, there has never been an accident involving a minor on my community fields. The soapbox has been taken away.

And how in any way does this completely bar young people from learning proper use of replicas? Hey guess what, get your dad, mom, uncle, older siblings, etc. interested and take them out to games with you. WOW now you're under supervision, problem solved. How is this being discriminatory or elitist?

And another thing, how many legitimate airsoft businesses outside of california are successful and growing, I can think of maybe a handful on the West Coast. How many fields are run by owner's who actually make a living by their profits? How many run them on the side because its merely a hobby? Then look at the UK, the "Nanny state" regulations actually helped small businesses becomes a staple of the sport, and now its growing like crazy over there. Check out the Airsoft International magazine articles covering the differences between airsoft 10 years ago and now, and how the legislation gave rise to more, better fields and more interest from the population. There are University sponsored Airsoft clubs (University of Derby, U of Lancaster, among others) receiving funding from their Uni's to travel around to different sites and play simply because now its a recognized and regulated hobby. I have a hard enough time nailing down annual funding for a BOXING club at my University because there isn't enough federal regulation like other "bonafide" sports like rugby and lacrosse. Airsoft club? Forget about it.

Maybe you can point out the negatives of the Nanny state instead of just saying "psh more regulations and controls, how lame".
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Postby Catch22 » Mon May 23, 2011 5:05 pm

The Uk has forced it's airsofters to only play at sanction fields. Of course their business' are doing great. People have to go to them. Taking away people's choices isn't freedom. I prefer being able to play where I want, and with whom I want.

I'll decide what happens at my games. Don't like it? Don't go. I won't miss you.
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Postby Miracle » Mon May 23, 2011 5:07 pm

Fine then you provide the sole field for youth training and education, and all of the barred minors can come to your doorstep to play. That way, you can take all of the responsibility for their smallest mistakes.
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Postby Wisenheimer » Mon May 23, 2011 5:10 pm

Poo throwing doesn't help. Except KA-BAR's poo throwing, that seems to be rally point for you guys to discuss further, and that's good. Not saying I agree with everything he says. Not saying I disagree with everything either.

But the discussion is good. Try not to get emotional.
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Postby Ranger Commie » Mon May 23, 2011 5:13 pm

If you dont like freedom of field then treat airsoft like a sport. Have youre crappy clear and bright colored airsoft guns to youre average loner. Then have the good realistic guns to Certified clubs and club members. Have the Club take responsibility for accidents its members do that way they monitor their members closely and insure they get well trained.
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