California Senate Bill 798, what can we do?

Read and comment on recent Airsoft News happenings. Also found on the main page of the website.

Postby Miracle » Mon May 23, 2011 11:35 pm

Nasty wrote:
Miracle wrote:There is no airsoft community in Ellensburg.


Look up NWATT. They hold games in Ellensburg almost weekly.


NWATT is a team consisting of a couple guys, not a community. But thank you very much for pointing me to that. I have never heard of these guys, and I think I should go introduce myself.

And I appreciate the help. Now I can actually dust off the old gear room.
User avatar
Miracle
Soldier
Soldier
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 276
Age: 34
Images: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:32 pm
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Postby KA-BAR » Tue May 24, 2011 7:12 am

Haloeclipse wrote:People can take ownership of this game and community, or not. Instead of bitching about stoopid kids with improper guidance, man up and show them the ropes. Nanny state? Because theres been how many examples of effective nanny state approaches from the US government? Take your time answering I know it may take awhile to find. like any other additional government oversight and regulation, it most likely will stop nothing and simply add another level of stupidity. The best idea is to never encourage, even by proxy, stupid legislation, its hard enough preventing it in the first place.

This attitude of f**k kids, blame the parents, I'm not their nanny causes the exact problems y'all are bitching about. You are worse than the parent that didn't teach them because you DO know better. This is an airsoft community, as in we should try and help eachother, not just ostracize or falsely blame the youngins. I've seen easily as many stupid adults as I have kids. Ive seen more kids just lookin to have a fun time at a game, than I have adults with there easily bruised ego.. You can't stop stupid but it is a moronic, simplistic, and ultimately, *wrong* answer to simply use minors as the scapegoat. Take a look at yourselves and ask, what have *I* done to better the community the hobby and those looking to get into it? It takes more than simply calling your hits or knowing how to build and operate a toy sniper rifle.




really?

i dont see WAR stepping up to the plate at all. in fact i belive WAR is a 18+ only team? am i correct? how many kids do you mentor? how do you help the community? because i sure am not seeing any contribution comming from your team.


infact as a admin i have had you walk up and complain about kids and hacking at games, so you are being very hypocritical thoma.



why dont you put your money where your mouth is and mentor a few of someones elses kids..... yea... i thought so.
I am not half as good as I want to be, but I am twice as good as you think I am.
User avatar
KA-BAR
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 6502
Age: 54
Images: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:41 am
Location: portland oregon

Postby Haloeclipse » Tue May 24, 2011 10:33 am

Firstly, WAR is essentially non existent right now. Between deployments, moving to the other coast and lots of kids being born we all have taken a break. I maintain my sig bar and affiliation because we were/are the coolest fuckin team in the known universe (and a few unknown as well). We were an 18+ team out of legal concerns over liability. We still allowed minors to play with us at games, and we still mentored youngins on and off the field. Other than one particular shit bag (Knuckles) I invite anyone in this community to call out WAR for attitude problems. If I remember correctly, our sportsmanship, and friendly nature were a few of the things we were well regarded for.

I've walked up multiple times and made comments about hackers, not just to you either. Ive done so over kids, and Ive done so over adults. Last I checked that is the encouraged route, telling an admin about issues instead of yelling and screaming. So which is it, I yell and scream or I talk to an admin? You can't have both.

Put my money where my mouth is? Ive hosted training days at Strikezone, Ive offered training time and had correspondence with other members or teams concerning training, tactics etc. What little information Ive gleaned from the military and my time overseas is free, as long as its not restricted, to anyone no questions asked. The difference between you and I, is that I would rather be a mentor. Unfortunately life has limited my involvement as of late. Every time I am actually able to attend I make a point to keep new players nearby to get them into the game and to learn sportsmanship by doing. When I commanded the survivors at Resurrection my personal body guards/3 man QRF were were all much younger players, my go to guys as I kept calling them. How cool is it for a kid at his first game to be the right hand of the commander of his team? How much more involved will he be if he is given the opportunity to shine and entrusted with responsibility and an older veteran players support? That is how you get community ownership. A mentor is often what the problem children are lacking in the first place, so you cant improve the situation by bitching about the problem and proceeding to continue that very issue.

When I hosted Lazarus effect I made a point of meeting any and all parents that brought their kids, and discussed in depth any questions they had, as well as thanking them for being present and involved, and if they left and then returned I would let them know how their child acted, and again thanked them for their involvement. These parents were offered contact information along with an invitation to continue a dialog at a later time. Not only get the kids involved, get the parents involved, put on a smiling face, let them see we are not just a bunch of man-children or wannabes playing war in the woods.

Due to life issues I have had to severely restrict my time on the field. It is simply not a priority, but when I can play I'd rather guide and mentor than simply push away, this is the community I have chosen, I owe it as much. Your attitude towards the kids and their parents is flat out backwards and ignorant. I will spare you the intricacies of the details surrounding death of the family wage, lowered socio economic status, households with both parents working etc and the correlation seen in the effects it has had on children, crime, etc. You don't care beyond your own self affirmations.

You're a great player, above reproach on the field. On the forum however,you are a worthless child. You are less than worthless, you are a liability. Who in their right mind would want you and your actions on this forum to represent *any* community. You, the one who brags about tainting a small childs ice cream with wasabi, and was it three days ago you got called out for threatening a child? Your consistent ignorant, verbally abusive behavior is an affront to the honor of the game. What do people think when they see your rants? Your behavior online is a shining beacon for those seaking to control the replicas or even guns in general. These kind of people don't need reality, and certainly won't bother learning who you really are on the field or your extensive knowledge of safety and gun or replica ownership. They will simply see an abusive, ignoramus, a poster child for why guns of any sort, real or replica, need more restrictions.
Never ever insult Halo he is a god among men ~achillesnick~
User avatar
Haloeclipse
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 4098
Age: 41
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Albany, Oregon

Postby lilwil » Tue May 24, 2011 11:47 am

KA-BAR wrote:
Haloeclipse wrote:People can take ownership of this game and community, or not. Instead of bitching about stoopid kids with improper guidance, man up and show them the ropes. Nanny state? Because theres been how many examples of effective nanny state approaches from the US government? Take your time answering I know it may take awhile to find. like any other additional government oversight and regulation, it most likely will stop nothing and simply add another level of stupidity. The best idea is to never encourage, even by proxy, stupid legislation, its hard enough preventing it in the first place.

This attitude of f**k kids, blame the parents, I'm not their nanny causes the exact problems y'all are bitching about. You are worse than the parent that didn't teach them because you DO know better. This is an airsoft community, as in we should try and help eachother, not just ostracize or falsely blame the youngins. I've seen easily as many stupid adults as I have kids. Ive seen more kids just lookin to have a fun time at a game, than I have adults with there easily bruised ego.. You can't stop stupid but it is a moronic, simplistic, and ultimately, *wrong* answer to simply use minors as the scapegoat. Take a look at yourselves and ask, what have *I* done to better the community the hobby and those looking to get into it? It takes more than simply calling your hits or knowing how to build and operate a toy sniper rifle.




really?

i dont see WAR stepping up to the plate at all. in fact i belive WAR is a 18+ only team? am i correct? how many kids do you mentor? how do you help the community? because i sure am not seeing any contribution comming from your team.


infact as a admin i have had you walk up and complain about kids and hacking at games, so you are being very hypocritical thoma.



why dont you put your money where your mouth is and mentor a few of someones elses kids..... yea... i thought so.



I have personally witnessed WAR members mentoring a few minors, and more then a few newbies to the sport. They have always taken the patience to make sure things were learned right. While they may not be active now, they actions they took during that time have stood out more then any other team I have witnessed. They have even hosted events aimed at the specific task of teaching those, of any age, the finer points of airsofting.
She said I raped her? Well, where there is a Will there is a way. But just remember, if it wasn't Lil, it wasn't Wil.

Juicemachine: lilwil (the self-provlaimed racist) wrote:
Your hatred is based on ignorance.

IR the self-provlaimed racist:)
lilwil
Ranger
Ranger
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 724
Age: 37
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:39 am
Location: eugene

Postby KA-BAR » Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 pm

Haloeclipse wrote: The difference between you and I, is that I would rather be a mentor.




that is a pretty distinct difference. because the way i see it, its not my responsibility to raise someone elses kids. you want that responsibility, have at it.


you and i have always gotten along, lets not taint it with petty insults.

as for the wassabi incident, you were not there, the parent was a regular and after i held up a ball of wassabi he laughed hard... as i whispered " i gotcha" because it was a running joke between the bar and the customer that there was wassabi in the green tea ice cream. so since you and others not involved might not see all of the social dynamics going on, you can base your judgements on my perspective, one side of the story....so to act like you know the truth is fool hardy at best friend.


as for my verbal rants, i am fine with how i portay my feelings, there is no sugar coating on it, its just the knobby club of truth.... i know sometimes its hard to deal with when it gets ugly. that is just how i talk. if ya cant deal with it dont talk to me....because i use the same language in person and on the forums. any one who knows me, know this.


sorry your not as active as you would like to be, but since you are not, you have no idea the current state of things and how they have degraded. so really if you were around a lil more maybe you would see it how it really is and have a different opinion.



as for the current issue, you cannot deny anything of what i have said thus far, and why is that, because it is all based of personal expereince both as a player and a admin. i have not see this community elevate its sportsmanship or honor in the past 4 years.

players like realtree kid are still allowed to play as long as they pay the entry fee. i have seen this hacking kid at no less then three of riddicks games , even after he was busted for hacking at SEVERAL events. this isnt a one time offender, but a habbitual offender. guess what, he is still in the community.

this community has not enforced on BAN or blacklist for safety violations or unsportsmanlike conduct.

at more and more games i am seeing real steel at games....really have we gotten soo loose on our rules that CCW carriers can just break one of the cardnial rules of airsoft... real steel and airsoft dont mix.


so when i say that this community is on a down turn, and had gotten so loose that no one enforces any of the the statutes and most fundimental rules....then my rants look like small potatoes compared to bullshit like that.


so who is policeing up this community and making it right?

the site owner? nope
the promoters? nope
the players? nope



who is left.




uncle sam. regulations and restrictions....because you couldnt tighten up the ship.

so you can point the fingers at the troll KA-BAR all you want....but the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room is still hiding in the shadows waiting to rip your hobby to shreds.



dont blame me for it. i am just rubbing your nose in it.
I am not half as good as I want to be, but I am twice as good as you think I am.
User avatar
KA-BAR
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 6502
Age: 54
Images: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:41 am
Location: portland oregon

Postby Wisenheimer » Tue May 24, 2011 5:54 pm

Read the last part of this ad...
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/for/2400905576.html

This attitude is what must be changed. How do we do that? How do we change the crappy attitude that this is guy epitomizes with his statement?

Everyone should swamp this guy with "educational" email.
User avatar
Wisenheimer
Ranger
Ranger
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 627
Age: 53
Images: 0
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:36 pm
Location: Happy Valley

Postby Shadowsta13 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:48 pm

Read the last part of this ad...
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/for/2400905576.html

This attitude is what must be changed. How do we do that? How do we change the crappy attitude that this is guy epitomizes with his statement?

Everyone should swamp this guy with "educational" email.

I agree with that. This individual seems to only have basic knowledge of what airsoft guns are and already is promoting idiotic behavior. A major problem with airsoft guns and minors are many don't use them safely and legally and then when you have idiots like this the problem gets worse.
User avatar
Shadowsta13
Soldier
Soldier
 
Team: SCST
Posts: 149
Age: 29
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:58 pm
Location: Sherwood, Oregon

Postby Ranger Commie » Wed May 25, 2011 4:00 pm

If you get an airsoft gun. Clear or not I think you need ANTI-DUMB-ASS training.
Two things are infinite, The Universe and Human stupidity, And I'm not sure about the Universe.
-Albert Einstein
Switchback wrote:Don't do shady deals in the classifieds before you have someones hand print on one of your butt cheeks.
User avatar
Ranger Commie
Soldier
Soldier
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 137
Age: 29
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:02 pm
Location: Near Eugene

Postby code789 » Wed May 25, 2011 5:18 pm

1st part:
http://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/2355
skip to 1h48m

2nd part:
http://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/2356

got this from Rene L. Galicia - CA's 56th Assembly District, Republican Central Committee
de leon's debate with the apposing group to the assembly
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
long live the republic
User avatar
code789
Ranger
Ranger
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 844
Age: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:49 pm
Location: salem

Postby Haloeclipse » Wed May 25, 2011 5:49 pm

KA-BAR wrote:
Haloeclipse wrote: The difference between you and I, is that I would rather be a mentor.


Lots of words abbreviated to keep this from becoming more of a word wall.


It is a very distinct difference. And also highlights our priorities on the game. You have no obligation to mentor others, I feel I do, not much to argue over, I think that my approach is more beneficial in the long run. But int he end one cannot control stupid kids or adults regardless of mentoring, and if idiocracy is even remotely right, were all f'd in the a. The trick is to help the ones that will positively respond, and until a fool proof way is established, that essentially means mentor everyone we can.

As far as the wasabi and verbal rants, my point is simply the appearance. When someone comes on the board without knowing the context it isn't the most positive of things to be advertised. This goes along with verbal rants, not just yours, many of us are quite guilty, myself included. But all our asshole behavior does however set a precedence for new players. Not sugar coating things is a rare trait and definitely has its place, too often people water down something that needs to be blunt. But theres a happy medium to be reached there. But again, Can't help stupid. Stupid kids and adults will remain no matter how stellar our conduct.

While my attendance is sadly low, I still play when I can even if it is in smaller venues. I know the problem exists and will not deny it, but again i think this goes into how we view our priorities in the game as well as what we feel out obligations, if any, are to the community. I will also not argue that the community is on a down turn, but I will disagree as to the cause. There have been many a time where Ive been put off by the abusive, child like conduct towards new players or simple dismissal due to age. We are not young players parents, and we did not choose to be their mentor, but our actions still have the same affect. The more open we are to underage players and the more responsibility and accountability we put in them, the more we can expect from them. We can't expect anything from anyone, minor or adult unless a baseline expectation is set down, and while the rules and expectations can be put here on the site or announced at games, actions still speak louder than words. If we take the time to mentor one dude, how much more likely is he to take on accountability of the game himself, and then do the same for another player later on? While it is easy to step back and wash our hands of it, and you are very much entitled to do so, it does nothing to solve the problem.

And you are right, if no one steps forward people need to get used to the idea of the gubment stepping in and doing it for them. Again however, deciding to simply not mentor is exactly what is going on. No accountability beyond ones own actions on field. If we want the game to not be molested by stupid government oversight we have to make a clear and concerted effort at the individual level to improve the current situation. In the end, we all should ask what we've done lately to improve the community and game. This is asking a lot but I am pretty sure this type of attitude adjustment could have a pretty positive effect on our community.
Never ever insult Halo he is a god among men ~achillesnick~
User avatar
Haloeclipse
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 4098
Age: 41
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Albany, Oregon

Postby KA-BAR » Wed May 25, 2011 9:23 pm

thanks thoma... i appreciate that we can meet in the middle.
I am not half as good as I want to be, but I am twice as good as you think I am.
User avatar
KA-BAR
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 6502
Age: 54
Images: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:41 am
Location: portland oregon

Postby Haloeclipse » Wed May 25, 2011 10:15 pm

Nothin but erotic love for you :)
Never ever insult Halo he is a god among men ~achillesnick~
User avatar
Haloeclipse
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 4098
Age: 41
Images: 1
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Albany, Oregon

Postby Paladin101 » Wed May 25, 2011 10:54 pm

wow same guy wants you to submit, name, address, thumb print, whenever you buy handgun ammo in Cali. Great, so now there is a record of what kinds of ammo people buy and where that ammo lives, more than likely with a matching gun, in the hands of Walmart employees. GREAT PLAN!
User avatar
Paladin101
Soldier
Soldier
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 392
Age: 40
Images: 0
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 7:34 am
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Postby KA-BAR » Thu May 26, 2011 9:43 am

wow. this is one cool video, and one cool kid.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptiahM21OM&feature=player_embedded#at=209[/youtube]



this is the attitude that is needed for airsoft....for some parents to take some responsibility. when this kid talks of his fondest childhood memories ( he's still a kid... i know) it great to hear he had parents that were involved. not some strange creepy airsoft dude, or adult that he met online or at a game.


kids that dont have this relationship with thier parents. i feel sorry for them. a whole generation.....lost.


my first knife was a issue KA-BAR, handed to me by my grandfather at the age of 9 years old. i still have all my fingers. why? because he supervised and was involved.

the first time i shot a gun....my mom taught me. she took me to my first hunters safety course. and embarrassed a few of the other dads, one for having his unattended rifle muzzle pointing into the campsite. i love my mom. she makes sara palin look like a chump phony pony when it comes to hunting and firearms.

i had parents that were involved....why dont you?<--generalization for the reading impaired!

maybe its not just the parents fault either....have you kids ever once asked your dad to spend the day with you and have fun....bet you havent. sucks to be the dad of that kid i bet. shameful.
I am not half as good as I want to be, but I am twice as good as you think I am.
User avatar
KA-BAR
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 6502
Age: 54
Images: 3
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:41 am
Location: portland oregon

Postby Steve » Thu May 26, 2011 11:09 am

I've been following the conversation, but needed some time to put together my thoughts on this.

I disagree with the bill. I think painting projectile-launching devices in bright colors trivializes them. I believe that more parents are likely to purchase them for minors if they appear to be nerf guns.

See, people are inherently lazy. In general, we make assumptions based on previous experiences rather than spend a lot of time researching every new product that we see. When a product is painted up to match the expectations of a toy, it is more likely to be seen as a toy.

I'd actually rather see stricter legislation. I'd like to see them treated more as firearms and less as toys. I'd support legislation to require background checks. I'd support legislation that punishes parents for putting them into the hands of a minor without providing direct supervision. I'd support legislation that prevents the hosting of games at uninsured properties.

Airsoft guns are dangerous. As semi-intelligent afficionados of the hobby, we take steps to minimize risks, such as wearing eye protection and balaclavas. But there are plenty of youtube videos that provide supporting evidence to show that uninformed kids do stupid shit with toy guns. I would rather see a short-term decrease in the size of the community in order to see it grow stronger in the long run.

I mean, barring airsoft being banned altogether, it's not going to decrease in popularity in the long run. The replicas we have now are pretty close to 1:1 replicas of weapons that are prohibitively expensive to purchase. If anything, keeping them accurate and restricting their purchase to adults is only going to make the kids want them more, not less.

Paintball went through a similar shift years ago. They chose to go with the parent-friendlym bright colors, cartoonish equipment, and inflatable bunkers in order to appeal to a mainstream player base. Airsoft is sort of a reactionary backlash. Airsoft is the more accurate, more "mil-sim" response to the mainstream paintball. Rather than trying to attract a mainstream following, we should be more interested in attracting responsible players with integrity.

So, basically, I simply cannot support airsoft replicas in the hands of a minor unless that minor is directly supervised by an adult. And painting them up like toys increases the likelihood of them being treated as toys.
This Week In Airsoft wrote:This Week in Airsoft stands behind its statement... The internet and YouTube can be your teacher.

Image
Steve
1337
1337
 
Team: N/A
Posts: 2133
Age: 46
Images: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:01 am
Location: NOLA, muthaf*ckers. Winter can eat a d*ck.

PreviousNext

Return to Airsoft News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests