Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Jerm_G » Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:50 pm

My issue with this whole issue is the BS that started this up again. Police get a call of a man who committed two cases of armed robbery in just a short period of time. The police have a description of the man and his vehicle. They find said asshole in a park. Call the SERT team and wait. Meanwhile said asshole wakes up, and exits the vehicle with a firearm. cops tell him to drop the gun, he points it at them, and the asshole gets shot. The Mayor as usual decides that this man is an unfortunate victim of the system and never would have committed such acts nor pointed the replica firearm at the cops if there was some kind of ordnance to tell him that that was illegal. Of course, this new law would have worked! Just like the armed robbery laws that he violated, along with over a dozen others. Considering I'm sure this this new law would be a minor ticketing offence, I highly doubt that it would have done that much good. He seemed fine with the long jail time associated with the robbery laws he was violating, I doubt a $400.00 ticket would do a hole lot.

Sam Adams has a history of not blaming the poor criminal and instead blaming it on some object that is harmless unless placed in the wrong hands. He tried this just last year with attempting to enact new firearms storage and reporting laws in order to curb gang violence. Being that he is also a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG), a liberal anti 2A organization that is hugely supported by the Brady Campaign and other organizations like Ceasefire Oregon it does not surprise me that he is again trying to place laws on something that even remotely looks like a gun.

As DJ pointed out, there are laws that all ready in place to deal with this issue. Not to mention ORS 166.--- does include BB guns and by effect airsoft guns as firearms. Is a law enforcement going to jump a minor for playing with his airsoft gun, no. If he holds up a liqueur store with it... yes.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Jester316 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:32 pm

I want someone to paint their hand black, make a gun hand motion at a cop and then sue them when he gets lit up...

Then we need to make any hand sign that could be misconstrued as a gun illegal...

And while we are at it, we need to make it illegal to put your hand in your pocket if there is a cell phone in there, because that could be construed as a gun...



Stupid people do stoopid things and then get shot. Stoopid people blame everything but the stupid person for their new breathing holes.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby DJ » Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:42 pm

Jerm, I'm laughing my as off re the fine example of natural selection in action ( the guy who brought a toy to a gun fight)
The only thing better is when a gang banger would kill a 2nd banger, commonly known as a 2fer...(1 dead and one in the crossbar hotel for life). But truly folks, these misunderstood children of need, just need some more laws and regulations to protect them from those evil guns.......

People watch out for your rights and privileges, Mayor Sam et al will gladly take them all if you let them.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:07 am

So what other alternatives are there to discourage parents and kids from treating replica firearms like toys and brandishing them in populated suburban areas? And don't say gun education, that would require that people actually listen and learn, which is something many people are incapable of. Would an outright ban on replica firearm ownership for people under 18 be any better? I'm sure you younger guys don't want that.

The natural selection argument makes us all sound like a bunch of raving redneck lunatics. If you start playing god and saying people are "better off dead" or "got what they deserved" you are just reinforcing the image that we're some kind of crazy gun-toting militia. 12-year-olds who's parents have half a brain who heard Airsoft guns were "toys" because many manufacturers and sales people would lead them to believe they are (even when painted to look real)... these folks are not gangbangers. Beaverton is a hub for young Airsoft players, in looking at Airsoft Pacific's statistics, much of our traffic comes from Beaverton. It's no wonder that rising popularity of Airsoft in Beaverton has pushed them to put legislation in place. Nobody cares what weapon a criminal uses to commit a crime, a crime is a crime, we've established that. Let's talk about the real problem, the younger generation of players abusing Airsoft replicas by using them in places that should not, that could potentially get our AEGs completely banned if it gets worse.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby pathfinder » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:31 am

18+ age sport hobby.....deal with it. otherwise you can include minors and deal with shit like this.
Promoters who charge $40 for a game they just copy and paste, does not give a crap about you, they care about money.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby TheAirsoftSaint » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:40 am

I know its not really a solution, but I personally think the best thing to do would be to make a permit for someone Under 18 or 21 in order to purchase a Airsoft replica. Will it eliminate the problem? Probably not, but it could do a possibility of two things, one make the politicians happy, and two, show the younger players that even though these are replica firearms, they should still be treated like their real steel counter parts.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Jester316 » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:46 am

TheAirsoftSaint wrote:I know its not really a solution, but I personally think the best thing to do would be to make a permit for someone Under 18 or 21 in order to purchase a Airsoft replica. Will it eliminate the problem? Probably not, but it could do a possibility of two things, one make the politicians happy, and two, show the younger players that even though these are replica firearms, they should still be treated like their real steel counter parts.


Current laws make it illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to purchase an airsoft gun... Like many other laws, we see just how well this works...
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby pathfinder » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:48 am

when i first started playing, the age ratio for minors was much smaller and this community policed up its problems.

in the last three or four years that went all out the window and this community allowed them to run rampant. its gone on far too long and now there is no way you will ever exclude minors. sadly that is the reason why you are experiencing now what you are. you reap what you sew. most promoters will allow minors because it means more revenue....and they are also part of the problem, because all they care about is the bottom line. most of them are now baby sitters getting paid far less then the average teen age baby sitter....what a promoter gets about 25 bucks for watching some soccer moms kid all day?

so who is responsible? you all are.
Promoters who charge $40 for a game they just copy and paste, does not give a crap about you, they care about money.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:00 am

Actually Morgan, minors playing Airsoft has been around since before this community existed. The ratio is the same as it was when I started 10+ years ago, but the overall popularity of the hobby has increased. Many of the people who still play today were minors when they started. And this problem existed back then too. The community had a rift.

Some folks wanted nothing to do with them. Some people believe they're going to have access to Airsoft guns no matter what we do. We can ignore the problem, or we can give them a structured and safe environment to play. It seems like the latter option is taking the lead these days. But the overall age ratio of people interested in Airsoft has not changed.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby TheAirsoftSaint » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:02 am

Jester316 wrote:
TheAirsoftSaint wrote:I know its not really a solution, but I personally think the best thing to do would be to make a permit for someone Under 18 or 21 in order to purchase a Airsoft replica. Will it eliminate the problem? Probably not, but it could do a possibility of two things, one make the politicians happy, and two, show the younger players that even though these are replica firearms, they should still be treated like their real steel counter parts.


Current laws make it illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to purchase an airsoft gun... Like many other laws, we see just how well this works...


I did not know that, I've only bought replica's from friends.

So that being said, isn't it kind of illegal for a parent to purchase a replica for their child; a minor? I mean really, the blame is really on the parents at that point.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby TheAirsoftSaint » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:25 am

So why hasn't someone from the AP community or any community for that matter, organized a time and or date in which to educate the new generation of players. I mean we all are tired of the bad rap, and it could really enlighten some new players. Hell I would gladly do this once a month. Not only is it showing that we care about how the public sees the sport and its communities but that we care to help educate the next generation of players.

Think of it like football, Football used to be dangerous. Lots of concussions, broke limbs and such. Yet now, through education and the advancement in safety equipment it is more safe then it was back in the 50's. The point I'm mainly trying to get at here is if we take the time to educate new players then we show the public that we aren't a but of red necks that seem to not care at all.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby McNair » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:46 am

TheAirsoftSaint wrote:
Jester316 wrote:
TheAirsoftSaint wrote:I know its not really a solution, but I personally think the best thing to do would be to make a permit for someone Under 18 or 21 in order to purchase a Airsoft replica. Will it eliminate the problem? Probably not, but it could do a possibility of two things, one make the politicians happy, and two, show the younger players that even though these are replica firearms, they should still be treated like their real steel counter parts.


Current laws make it illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to purchase an airsoft gun... Like many other laws, we see just how well this works...


I did not know that, I've only bought replica's from friends.

So that being said, isn't it kind of illegal for a parent to purchase a replica for their child; a minor? I mean really, the blame is really on the parents at that point.


No, it's not illegal for parents to purchase an airsoft gun for their child.
From what I've read, there is no minimum age for owning a bb gun/air rifle. You just have to be 18 to purchase it and they're expecting there to be parental supervision.
Remember that you can own a "real steel" rifle when you're 16 as long as it's purchased by someone 18+.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Matt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:59 pm

I got the finalized schedule for the show tomorrow for anybody who plans to listen in. I'll be on around 9:30. They will also be speaking with Michael Row from the Beaverton Police Department.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Variable » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:10 pm

Good luck Matt.

Regarding this whole thing... More laws doesn't make things better. The yahoos that go and get themselves shot by brandishing a replica aren't hobbyists, but more restrictions on these replicas hurt the hobbyists more than they stop yahoos from brandishing them in a threatening manner.
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Re: Replica Gun City Ordinance Poll for Portland

Postby Jerm_G » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:04 pm

Matt, the big flaw in the "for the kids" issue is that the reason this issue is even being discussed has nothing to do with kids. It's been brought up in an attempt to stop real bad guys from waving fake guns in peoples' faces and to save Portland PD money because some asshole's mother thinks that despite all her son's flaws and record showing a dozen arrests for violent crimes, that her son is the sweetest person in the world and magically is of some value to the community that he has been robbing at (fake) gunpoint.

AP all ready does inner community policing. We require members obey the out of sight out of mind policy. We encourage store owners to encourage the same things, and we have a heavy push for playing only at sanctioned events.It is not and should not be AP's responsibility to educate the population at large, create rules for the masses, or encourage law enforcement to waist their valuable time in dealing with this BS.

The answer is simple, if you commit a crime with a gun, fake or not, you will be charged as if the crime was committed with a firearm. If you are a bad guy who points a firearm, be it fake or not, at someone you will likely be shot and likely killed for being a dirt-bag dumbass. Lastly if you are the parent of a child that has airsoft guns, then be a frigging parent and supervise your frigging kids! If parents would stop blaming the community or others for the actions of their dumb ass crumb munchers, and instead supervise and educate their kids, this wouldn't be an issue.
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