The Decline of AP.com

[Cruz FoxHound]

The Decline of AP.com

As a relatively new player in the PNW, there has been a learning curve to understanding our community. From what I have seen in our region & other places in America, it appears we are very fortunate to have one of the best-organized airsoft communities. While there are many involved & enthusiastic organizers in the area, with whom we are blessed (frankly), I believe our strength is largely a result of AirsoftPacific.com.

Since its inception on March 14th, 2007 (yesterday was the 9-year anniversary), AP.com has racked up just under 95 million views — a remarkable volume for such a niche sport. It has acted as a platform for rookie & veteran players alike to share knowledge, experiences, organize new teams, & plan future games. AP.com is the reason I was able to get involved in the PNW even before my family relocated to Portland by making my introduction seamless. I know I am not alone in this experience, although I’ve seen some younger players receive a harder welcome than myself.

While attending the most recent War Sport NW game at Camp Rilea (OP: Steel Talon), I took the time to speak with experienced players from several different teams about their thoughts on airsoft in our region. Above all, there was one thing that every single one of them agreed upon:

AirsoftPacific.com is not being properly maintained, moderated, or promoted & the inevitable result will be its phasing out.

This wasn’t something that was spoken with anger or venom, but rather melancholy disappointment. Everyone that I spoke to had invested a lot of time on AP.com to develop the community & were frustrated by lack of positive moderation. One of the most common complaints was of old cadre, who are incredibly experienced & possess a wealth of knowledge, are too easily frustrated by “noob questions” & readily supply sarcasm rather than encouragement. Or worse yet, there were also accounts (which I have not taken the time to personally verify) of moderators themselves replying to simple beginner’s questions with negativity. I have myself witnessed that one of the easiest ways to receive backlash on AP.com is by posting with improper spelling or grammar. While it is outstanding that some people still care about language form, perhaps we need to do our best to answer a question if the author basically makes his/her point since this is not an English enthusiasts page.

The first headline that a new visitor to AP.com reads is from September, 2014. The “Latest Poll” was posted in November 2014 & only 137 people have voted since then. Without further investigation, anyone that is not from the region could almost safely assume the website is merely an advertisement-toting ghost with sponsor-link swag. The reality, however, is that our airsoft community is THRIVING & grows bigger every day. Our teams are incredibly well-developed with legitimate websites, patches, uniform & communications standards. More people are constantly getting involved & they need a virtual place where it is possible to connect with ease & encouragement, where news is fresh & bio BBs grow little flowers when they degrade (partial joke). I understand it is easy to paint a rosy picture, but my point is that our virtual community should be an extension of our actual community & reflect what we really are.

I am calling upon the operators & admins of AirsoftPacific.com to re-energize the website by assigning new moderators, bringing on new writers to create current articles & reviews, & to once again take active interest in the community. If the current operators & admins are unable or unwilling, I call upon them to pass the torch to current members of the community that are willing to do so, thus bringing new life into our virtual community.

The truth is that we love AP.com & want the best community we can have in the PNW. This is why we are online & hope to be as long as we are slinging BBs within FPS limits.

Thank you for reading my post.

[Tankwitch]

The death spiral is hard to avoid for even the biggest sites. So only the most dedicated remain after awhile. People still use AP just not for talking. People only seem to use this site for the business of finding and signing up for games.

The problem is that airsoft has a nasty learning curve. So people have questions, but the technical and philosophical questions have been "answered." This doesn't mean that new or interesting questions can be posed, but we have been stilted towards the possibility of new ways. "Mil-sim" has become the standard for the old guard and the new guard has yet to learn the place they occupy. As people "age" in the community they occupy different places but AP has begun to delineate to few ways of "being." This in my mind causes the death spiral, a psychic rigidity towards possibility due to experience building beyond the breaking point.

The question I pose is this: "Can AP be said to be a vibrant community?"
The answer I find in my heart is a sad no. Can it be again? Maybe. It will take more than a few people. It would take a cultural revolution. One not likely to happen.

To undermine myself in my pseudo wisdom, I give you some ultra obscure "Korean weeaboo" music. Enjoy;

[Jester316]

AP declined due to the influx of new people who want things handed to them and go crying away when the meet any resistance.

You say that it's easier to just answer a question instead of directing someone to the search feature. Imagine this for a moment: I've been here since 10/16/2007. That's roughly 8.5 years. That's 102 months. 3,102 days (not counting leap years). Average one log on a day (more like 5-6 back in the first 5 years of my tenure here). I have seen the same questions asked tens of thousands of times. "What gun is the best?" "What weight BB's should I use?" "What is the best sniper out there for under $70?". These are questions that I've seen come up every month of the past 8.5 years. Every time these questions are posted, they are archived. This site has a fancy search feature where you can put your favorite criteria into a box and it will pull up EVERY post with a matching word.

We've answered all the questions numerous times. If someone would take 5 min to go through the search feature, chances are their question would be answered. But if it's not, then they can post it and pick the hive mind.

On the topic of grammar and "this not being an English enthusiast page": This is a game of honor. Many times the only place we meet each other is on the field. This means your impression on line represents who you are. If you can't take the time to proof read your posts, or form a coherent thought, how can we trust that you will call your hits? Or that you will adhere by minimum FPS or engagement distances? Show pride in your online self. There is absolutely 0 questions that are so important that someone cannot take a moment to proof read and correct mistakes. Add in the fact that every internet browser has a built in spell checker, there is no reason for mistakes.

So, how do we fix it? Don't call on the moderators. Their job is not to infuse new life into this website. Calling on them shows that you are part of the problem. You want things fixed but aren't willing to put the work in. The beauty of a public forum is that EVERYONE can create content and post it.

[Reascr]

Honestly, I feel the site suffers from being a full blown site and not something far more simple. /r/Airsoft is a more useful site for me to be able to use because you get answers faster, often more varied, and enough content is posted due to simplicity of being able to have stuff posted (And be encouraged in fake internet points) gives you a lot of options you wouldn't potentially know of otherwise. Plus, the sidebar of /r/Airsoft has a lot of really useful information that you are basically forced to look at to submit, and answers many beginner questions in a wiki that's partially maintained. It makes newbie questions a little easier to answer because you can just direct them to the wiki with their question, and the whole wiki is very well written out in such a way to make it easy to understand and I feel it does help cut down on the questions, although maybe that's just because many of us are older players of the sport. Plus a few other things here and there, but it doesn't work as a regional hub or anything like AP which is an issue, any event talked about on it is going to be a larger event, I heard mention of Steel Talon on there and MSW events are often discussed.

Add the simplicity of a site where many people have an account, like reddit or Facebook, and a decline of a less supported, less promoted, etc website is almost to be expected as much of a shame it is. And my post is too much of a ramble, tell me (Please, I tend to go on without recognizing it) and I'll try to slim it down or outright delete it

[Cruz FoxHound]

[Payback]

I kinda skipped over most of the above and caught some highlights. This might have been said already.

In my opinion allot of new players won't/don't use AP simply because it's a hostile environment and there are easier venues now. Facebook was the biggest one in the last few years. Easier to post on, sell, ask questions. All mobile devices have it.

Reddit is weird to me, but i'm old, so i don't get it

The issue i had with AP was the grammar nazi's, and the hostility to simple questions. You don't have to click that reply button. You can ignore it. It will die after a while. Some of us do have a problem with ignoring things, but it can be done. I am one who usually will reply with something.

Yes there are times that when the grammar was so bad you couldn't understand what was being said, then something could be said about it. But i have been hit for misplacing a comma, or omitting one. Totally throws off the reason for the post, or the answer when you have to read through 10 posts about grammar. Not fun.

And the whole clip/mag thing. Holy crap, sometimes i swear somebody pissed in their coffee or kicked them in the balls. We all know what they mean, not every person needs a lesson on what a clip is and what a mag is. Facebook is even worse for this, but allot easier to ignore.

I know many people, more than i can count on my fingers and toes, that won't post on AP for these reasons valid or not.

I keep coming back because i've met great friends and learned allot on this site. I tend to be a bigger A-hole than most, so i can deal with the jabs.

Now that facebook is shutting down airsoft pages i see that AP will liven up a bit more. But it does need to get updated to be more mobile friendly and maybe even an app.

[McNair]

AP has been around longer than 2007. I think that was just when this particular version of the forum was introduced. There were a few versions before that.
I've been playing since 2000 and I believe I met Matt in '02 or '03? AP started up shortly after in some form. I had a page going with the same ideas, just not the same skills Matt had so he made AP and it was a bit more legit and inviting to the masses.

As Darius said... Facebook.
It just works better all around. I am a member of countless groups on there for sales, specific genres of airsoft, communities both local and national, teams, event specific groups, etc.
Its just much simpler and efficient than using forums. All my bullshit is one location. I don't have to log in to a different site and scroll through all the same old new guy bullshit that was a daily thing on here. I can go to whatever particular group I am interested in and check the info there. I am not a member of any groups that are full of new guy questions... After 16 years... I just don't give a shazaam about kids first getting into airsoft. Now, if you want to talk to me about getting into serious Milsim shit, I'll talk to you. But I don't care about helping you pick out your first gun that despite us telling you don't buy it, you'll ignore us and just call us dicks or something.
Also, on Facebook, kids can't hide behind some "forum handle" like they do on here. 99% of the time, the facebook profile they use is them and I can see who the shazaam they are. On here, I've seen people like Mark Fontaine make 20 different accounts or keep changing his name once people figure out who he is and treat him appropriately(but even he has multiple facebook accounts).

AP is dead. Matt doesn't give a shazaam about it as he has way more shit going on in his life that actually matters.
Now it is just a bank of outdated reference material.

[Cruz FoxHound]

I would really hesitate to call AP.com "dead" & this is at the core of my point -- it is just drifting.

The fact that so many people know about the site & talk about it at games is a strong indication of a very successful website. It just needs to be revitalized with some new material & involved moderation. If someone doesn't want to be involved anymore, the right thing to do for the community is to identify responsible, willing people & pass it on. We are all talking about the same thing here, being adaptation. To hold its place as a prominent network, AP.com needs to adapt to the new times & that starts with getting the right people at the helm.

[Nocte]

[MySwan]

I agree that AP seems like a site that is just kind of there instead alive. I joined this site probably last year and started playing airsoft last year and I haven't noticed much hostility except for some things I actually overreacted on which was kind of embarassing for who I am but I let it go. I started playing last summer and now I've got my kit and everything almost ready for MSW. Then again I have had help from a friend who has been into airsoft way longer than I have and he has guided and answered my questions a lot. Facebook and Reddit do seem like way better places but as we all know Facebook has taken a recent hostility it seems like to airsoft but that's mainly because of people trying to sell stuff on there plus I like to keep my family and friends who don't know tool about the sport separate but the airsoft community local. Also the whole mag/clips thing is more of a real steel problem rather than airsoft and if you call a magazine a clip or vice versa it just makes you look stupid and is kind of cringy mainly because it resonates with anti-gunner BS.

[Cruz FoxHound]

Nocte, thanks for joining the conversation. What if someone is interested in more involvement or responsibility with AP.com? How can a member go about becoming a mod or posting headline content to the site?

[Rentax]

[Cruz FoxHound]

Wow, Rentax. That's a lot of history that I was not privy to. Pretty awesome, actually -- like a legitimate airsoft folk history lesson. I feel like I just got sat down by the fire & told the truth, haha. Thanks for that.

Given all that inside info, I can totally understand how anyone could become jaded or tired or disappointed by these changes over time. It could all be potentially even more frustrating because of generation gap. If we're talking about any length of time more than five to six years, that can be a huge difference, let alone a full decade. The way younger people search for & process information now is completely different than it was that long ago, & even more so than when the old guard was the same age.

Reading over your story, it basically seems like AP.com was designed by/for that original crowd & it has since grown to be something significantly larger beyond the intent. The result at this point is like a clash of old & new where you (& some others), being part of that OG crowd, almost feel swarmed by new players who have a perspective of disposable culture. There is much more sentimentality in your eyes; a mutual respect for players that have been there & experienced the evolution. For the veterans of AP, the repetitive surface-level questions that new people ask as well as the high player turnover volume cheapen the history. It could also be the case that when I say, "community", it is an altogether separate group from what you may feel to be the real community. Am I on the right track?

Maybe I understand your perspective, maybe it's not even possible. What seems to be situation at this time is that the mods & AP veterans have the choice to modernize the site to some degree for the new generations or let it be as it is. Considering the duration of my tenure here in the context as you put it, it's pretty easy to understand Jester's earlier comments...

I guess it is what it is, guys. I was really hoping to find some inspiration & a few members here that would feel more optimistic about collaboration. I'm definitely not trying to hijack the AP world, but I will admit I am trying to produce positive momentum. Just because I see possibility doesn't mean it is the direction desired by all.

[Cruz FoxHound]

Anyone who has new ideas, PM me sometime. Maybe we can organize something cool.

[McNair]

Also, what no one has mentioned but likely has a great effect:

Airsoft Pacific bleeding blows to use on a phone and now most of us just use our phones now.