Vietnam War USMC RECON Kit list

Discussion of Airsoft use for re-enactment, WWII/WWI airsoft, Vietnam and more.

Postby congofal » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:27 pm

Oh and by the way the pads used with the P41 suspenders where M45 pads left over from WWII and Korea , not M56 pads , specially since you have to cut the pads off the M56 harness in order to use them and even then you need to modify them.
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Postby Paladin101 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 2:27 pm

Yeah, you are correct about the 45 pads, I was wrong there, which is funny because I have them on my 41 suspenders.

ERDLs were coming out to recon teams in late 68 early 69. I know, have talked, and done extensive research on Recon teams in Vietnam and I can tell you for a fact that Tigerstripe, other than VNMC, was not widely or commonly used. And actually in 1968 there was a Marine Corps Order issued by the Commandant of the Marine Corps, General Leonard Chapman, against wearing unauthorized tiger stripe fatigues. It probably was used by a very select few of individuals, but it was very rare. One thing about Marines is that they have never gotten a ton of freedom in their equipment. You can't just go around using whatever you want.

There is commonly confusion between the special reconnaissance forces from all services during Vietnam as to who they actually are due to photos being misidentified and undocumented. Many times people have seen images of LRRPs (who commonly wore tiger stipe fatigues) and assumed they were USMC Recon.

As for the belts, the stitching is different and can be vertical instead of horizontal, the 61 had snaps on it for attachments(as you mentioned), and the 56 had a different hook, they were round and the 61 was rectangular.

The thing about your list is that you have a gigantic cross section of gear used by everyone. Yes, the gear was used in theater at the time, but not necessarily as common place by USMC Recon. Like I said, Yes there were probably rare cases of people using the gear, but generally when you do an impression of a historical unit you use what was commonplace, not what was rare. Otherwise you have an impressive collection.
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Postby congofal » Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:08 pm

The list i posted was put together with the advise of a member of Team Cayenne who was there in '68/69 , as well as first hand accounts from Force Recon AND Recon Bn members .
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Postby Paladin101 » Sat Oct 16, 2010 3:02 am

Hmmm...thats funny because most of the actual recon guys I have talked to from the force recon association, it helps that I am a marine, don't remember much about their gear. Actually the biggest source the MCHA, Marine Corps Historical Association, has had on gear from first hand accounts are members who were VNMC advisors. In fact I specifically remember him telling me a story about watching three Vietnamese Marines beat the shit out of some guy who was wearing a sea weave beret he had made at some local shop because it looked cool. Also I've been to three Marine Corps museum at MCRD San Diego three times and the National museum. If they were there in 68 to 69 that means they were there with 3rd Force Recon probably. You cann read the book Force Recon Command by.thier CO. He is a major, I forgot his name right now, but I have it around here somewhere. He specifically addresses in the book some Marines attempts to wear different, non-issued, gear. He was almost universally completely opposed to it. Very few things did he bend on.

You could have the tigerstripe issue confused with 1st force recon who was in the south early in the war and therefore under army control. They were wearing tigerstripe for a short while necause it was better than OD and ERDLs were not available yet. However they quickly were rid of them due to 1} the mco outlawing wearing it fully in 68. And 2} the mco not allowing the wearing of the EGA on non sea weave tiger stripe. No Marine wants to ever be confised with the Army...Ever.

Like I said you have a very large cross section of gear, but several things were not widely used by recon. The only real "special" gear they had vs normal marines were maybe one or two thirty round mags for the pointman and ground sensors to plant on trails.

Oh yeah it's referred to as Force and Battalion Recon not Recon battalion. If you say recon battallion you will probably get weird looks.
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Postby congofal » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:26 pm

My sources where in RECON in Vietnam and they do remember the gear issued to them , by '67 they started getting M56 gear issued through channels and it was more usual to see Army M56 gear than Marine M61 gear in RECON.
They also never heard of 1st Force being under Army control.
Guys still held on to TS camo and it was even handed down to new members when some one rotated back to the States and the camo was still serviceable.
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Postby congofal » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:39 am

Paladin101 wrote:
Oh yeah it's referred to as Force and Battalion Recon not Recon battalion. If you say recon battallion you will probably get weird looks.


You might want to get a hold of them and let them know that their official website as well as the 1st , 2nd and 3rd should change their insignia because they have it wrong then.
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Postby Paladin101 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:16 pm

It's a proper name. "Battalion" is a unit size not a name. However when referring to the different units it is commonplace to differentiate them by call them Battalion Recon and Force Recon. Jesus man, you have a stick up your a$$ about being corrected don't you?
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Postby congofal » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:53 pm

No i don't have a problem with being corrected as long as that person knows what they are talking about.
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Postby Paladin101 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:23 pm

I'll tell you what, how long do you have in the corps active duty? Lets compare Service Records.
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Postby congofal » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:31 pm

None in the Marines , i only play one on TV.
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Postby Paladin101 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:52 pm

I played one in real life, so somehow I'm going to guess I might have a slight knowledge of the United States Marine Corps. But hey, the things you've read and watched on tv were probably pretty realistic.
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Postby congofal » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:08 am

Nah , TV , movies and even books get stuff wrong all the time , they even have their actors and extras in the wrong gear , use the wrong vehicles and aircraft because they look close enough.
So i much ratter go with the info that is given to me by the vets who where there on the ground.
That's how i know that the items on my list are correct , specially when the list was sent by me to a member of a team that was there in Vietnam , he looked at the list added items i did not have , then passed the list to other Recon members from the era , they added stuff to the list , then sent it back to me , i put the items together , took photos and sent them to a guy who is a member of the Force Recon Association and get more input from other Vietnam era Recon team members and then i got the Good to Go from them.

The end result of all that is my list you see here .
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Postby Paladin101 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:48 am

Really, FRA huh? What's his name, because I personally know several members of the FRA leadership, including the standing president. He was a Vietnam vet and literally knows everyone who was in country. In fact he was the one that told me your list was as I said before, "extravagant". Yes the gear you listed was in use in theater at the time, but not necessarily by Force Recon teams. You literally have listed nearly every piece of issued gear at the time. Just because it was issued doesn't mean it was used and furthermore doesn't mean it was used by Force Recon on missions.

But it doesn't really make a difference, you will wear what you want to wear, plenty of other fakes get it wrong. But don't act like you are some sort of authority because you make a list of every piece of gear possibly used in Vietnam and say it's for USMC Force Recon. That's misleading and a lie
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Postby congofal » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:22 pm

OK to end this couple of points

1 ) I never said i was an expert on anything , i am always learning new things so i am by no means an expert.

2 ) I'm sure you missed it , but the list covers gear used from the beginning of the war all the way to the end with the Mayaguez Incident ( Not a Recon Operation in case you think hat's what i am implying)

3 ) The Recon veteran i mentioned was the senior Corpsman for 3rd Force '67-'68 , since you have the means to do so , look him up.

4 ) I thank you for your service and respect you for that.

5 ) I never said i was a Marine so i am not a fake nor a lier.

6 ) By the time you where in 1st grade i was being fired at by people who did not like what we where trying to do , i am sure in the time i was in i was fired upon by more people from different countries than i care to remember.

So to finish my little answer , the list was meant as a guide of gear available to Marines , Recon guys to be more specific , throughout the Vietnam War , in case anyone was interested in such an impression.
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Postby Cap n pickles » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:36 pm

Where is the mod that says "Take this to PM's Guyzz"


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