Mandatory Face Protection for under 18? (NO!)

[Nocte]

Split from the Lords of War game thread

By the way, I think all players under 18 should be required to have face protection at all games, IMHO.

I'm not their parents. They're not my responsibility. Their face is not my concern. If their parents know the risks associated with airsoft, and they let their kids go without protection, it's not my problem. If the parents don't know the risks, that's also not my problem.

That said, I try not to shoot anyone above the collar bone.

[phiz]

By the way, I think all players under 18 should be required to have face protection at all games, IMHO.

If the parents don't know the risks, that's also not my problem.

Way to take responsibility for the sport and promote safety. "I knew your child could loose teeth but it wasn't my problem to tell you". Nice.

[Nocte]

Way to take responsibility for the sport and promote safety.

I'm responsible for myself, not the entire sport/hobby. When I have kids, I'll be responsible for them. I play airsoft to have fun and shoot my buddies, not to babysit. Parents are responsible for their children. I'm sorry you disagree with that.

I'm am curious how you correlate my lack of responsibility for other people's children to poor promotion of safety regulations. The two aren't really related in any meaningful way. Here's a breakdown:

Should you wear eye-protection while playing airsoft? Certainly. If I see you on the field without eye-pro, I'll let you know. If you're really far from the parking lot or another no-fire zone, I'll probably do what I can to stop the game so your stupid a$$ can go get your eye-pro, or at the very least to get off the damn field.

Should you wear a mouth guard or a face mask? Yeah, sure, if you're concerned about tooth damage. If I see you on the field without it I'll assume you aren't worried about it. I'm not here to make that choice for you or enforce parents' concerns for them.

I don't stop kids in my neighborhood from riding bikes without helmets either. Wow, I must be a total jerk.

I doubt you really saw it this way, and I'm sure you were just tacking that on so I look like the douchebag you want me to be.

[Zeta Crossfire]

eye pro yes, face protection no. I wear face protection because I don't want my teeth shot out, but it should not be mandatory.

[Shiloh]

I think I'll throw in my two cents here, just to get flamed (since that's probably the end result anyway)

In my opinion, Nocte hit the nail on the head. I know it sounds biased coming from a minor, and my opinion probably means jack squat, but I think that it's my own choice to whether or not I wear mouth/face protection. Yes, getting teeth knocked out sucks (hasn't happened to me yet, but to a friend of mine) but if you chose not to wear mouth protection and KNEW for a fact that you could in fact lose teeth, well, tough cookies. That's something I preach alongside eye pro to new players: Yes, these bb's will break your teeth, yes it hurts, and yes I HIGHLY recommend you wear some sort of face protection.

I believe that if you signed the waiver, agreeing that anything that happens to you that day is not the fault of the owner, and end up getting some teeth shot out, then that's on you. I personally hate taking headshots, since I know that they hurt to no end, but we all know that an airsoft gun is about as accurate as a revolutionary war musket, and the BB's don't always go where we want them to.

So, in conclusion: Yes, face protection should be encouraged. But required? No. What I think will end up happening is a bunch of whiny kids who think they're being babied and go play in the street.

[Darius137]

I don't think parents know as much about this sport as their kids do, and just trust that the sport is safe enough that others come to play and glad their kid isn't sitting at home playing COD: black ops.

I think some sort of explanation of face protection to the parent would have them protecting their kid's mouth 99% of the time, but that's just a guess.

Ultimately I think it's up to game hosters, but if someone tried this at a game, I think the parents would definitely opt for a mesh face mask or balaclava.

Also I think if a kid loses a tooth at a game, they're not coming out anymore.

[ogrejager]

I know it sounds biased coming from a minor, and my opinion probably means jack squat, but I think that it's my own choice to whether or not I wear mouth/face protection.

Yes, your opinion matters jack squat. When you pay your own dental bills, then you can make your own choice.

[Matt]

Yeah I think a strong recommendation is a good idea. Generally, more information about Airsoft for parents is always a good idea.

[Nocte]

How are parents supposed to know the risks if the organizers and players don't tell them? Withholding information about potential broken teeth or face scars is not nice, that is my opinion as a parent. Had I known the risks when my kid started playing I would not have let my kid run around without face and mouth protection.

I assume that we all take responsibility for promoting the sport in our area, assuming we want places to play and people to play with, and websites to advertise on. I would like to still be playing 10 or 20 years from now, having kids teeth get shot out now means they won't be playing in the future.

Is too much to put on the waivers, "FACE AND MOUTH PROTECTION STRONGLY RECOMMEMDED" ?

Anyway, sorry to call you a D.B, that was not appropriate and I edited it out. My bad.

Best regards,
Phiz

Who said anyone was withholding information? If a concerned parent asks me "what are the risks of my kid playing airsoft?" I'll be glad to point it all out. I did this several times a week when I was running CAGE (an indoor airsoft arena, in case you are unfamiliar).

If the parents never ask, it's not my responsibility (anymore) to chase them all down and explain to them every possible danger.

I'd assume that a responsible parent would research the hobby a little before consenting to let their kid go. I found this in about 15 seconds, as I wrote this reply: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft#Ey ... protection

That said, a quick line added to the waivers would probably be a nice thing to do. We agree there.

[Zeta Crossfire]

why not host a day for parents to learn more about airsoft? People in the community who want to give up a few hours of there day and we create a sort of open house where parents can come and learn more. Since so a lot of new players are under the age of 18 it might be a good idea. Rough idea, but if it works it could help the community.

[Nocte]

I'm not sure that there's enough content to cover that would warrant a few hours of time on the parent's part. The smallest effort put into internet research on airsoft will cover pretty much all the major safety concerns without wasting a ton of time.

[Zeta Crossfire]

I'm not sure that there's enough content to cover that would warrant a few hours of time on the parent's part. The smallest effort put into internet research on airsoft will cover pretty much all the major safety concerns without wasting a ton of time.

or maybe even a "light" airsoft game where maybe they try and get the parents involved show them how things work and maybe get them to play or watch a few games. Most likely won't work, but it's still an interesting idea.

[Jose]

I know it sounds biased coming from a minor, and my opinion probably means jack squat, but I think that it's my own choice to whether or not I wear mouth/face protection.

Yes, your opinion matters jack squat. When you pay your own dental bills, then you can make your own choice.

I agree with you Ogre, now days Teens think that they are bad a$$, the problem is that they are bad a$$ with out money, at the end, the one that has to pay the bills is the parent or legal guardian, now I do agree that it shouldn't be mandatory full face proteccion, but lets face it, most of us act before think.

[Bad Karma]

why not host a day for parents to learn more about airsoft?

It doesn't require a doctoral degree to figure out that your kid running around in the woods getting shot at by hard plastic pellets is inherently unsafe. If you, as a parent, haven't bothered to take the time to research where you kid is going and what they are doing, and making a judgment call based on that information, then the least of their problems in life will be getting a tooth shot out.

The last thing we need is unnecessary regulation of our hobby because a few parents are too ignorant and apathetic to educate themselves about airsoft before buying their kid their first replica. Step up, take responsibility for you and yours, and stay the hell out of my business. It's not my problem, nor should it be.

Airsoft Pacific doesn't provide childcare.

We could just make the whole community 18+ and it would solve a lot of the problems posed by minors, and I would have to worry a lot less about offending people's sensitivities.

[Zeta Crossfire]

How many people at LOW where wearing face protection? I didn't see that many kids or adults. Out of all the games I've been to in my almost two years of airsoft 90% of the people don't use it either. Personally I don't think there is a "right" choice in the matter, but until we get an epidemic or something along those lines it should be the individuals choice whether or not they want the protection a face mask provides. I do however think that putting a "strongly recommend masks" on game threads wouldn't hurt. You can't protect people all the time, sometimes you have to let them decide for themselves whether the risk is worth the reward.

*to add*

We could just make the whole community 18+ and it would solve a lot of the problems posed by minors, and I would have to worry a lot less about offending people's sensitivities.

I admit after I posted the thing about the information thing a thought went though my head "Oh shit this is a fking recreational activity if the parents care they should look this shit up themselves. I was thinking about the ATA training academy and how there trying to make an effort to teach players the rules of the game, kind of thought we could do that with the parents... bad idea I admit that.

But banning everyone under 18 is also a bad idea. You said that putting more restrictions on airsoft is a bad thing, banning people by age is no better then making it mandatory to wear face masks. There are plenty of people in this community that are under 18 that are great players that play the game with honor, there are also a lot of under 18 players that will cheat all day long the same can be said about players OVER the age on 18. There are plenty of players over the age of 18 that will cheat just as much as younger players even though it does happen with younger players then older ones, but people no matter what there age is will take advantage of people who play fair and honorably. People like Riddick and Matt should be allowed to put an age limit on there games, but a wide spread ban on people under 18 is to much.

You can not change people. No matter what their age is people will cheat, people will take advantage of others, people will not play fair. Banning a whole slew of people who are interested in airsoft just solely based on age and not their character is in my opinion wrong. People should be judged on what makes them them, there character. I can name 5 people under the age of 18 who play fair, play honorably, play airsoft the way it should be played. I would rather let a few people in who would cheat then strip from them the right to play the game that has brought us all together.