the IAR ( Infantry Automatic Rifle)

[Victory]

Thing with all the M60s, MK46/48 series, and the M240 series...they have their place in combat.

The IAR is to fill a different roll. One of which involves closer quarters and the like.

Totally different weapon systems, totally different purposes.

And...besides the MK46, totally different calibers.

-Vic

[Martin.]

Sorry for the Necro, but I felt it appropriate since the Marine Corps recently announced that they're purchasing 4,100 HK IARs. Personally, I think the HK version was the weakest of the three finalists, but it wasn't my call .

KA-BAR, are you going to revive your USMC IAR kit? (http://airsoftpacific.com/viewtopic.php?p=295721)

Anyway, I wrote about the announcement on AONWs page here. Here's the excerpt:

Last week the US Marine Corps announced that they will phase out the FN M249 SAW at the squad level and replace it with the HK M27 IAR. This may come as a surprise to service members, military enthusiasts, and MILSIM-ers. Why would the Marines want to replace such a battle tested belt fed automatic weapon with a glorified M4?

Well to begin, the SAW isn't going anyway anytime soon. Consider this a shift in roles to meet the needs of modern warfare. The Marines are purchasing 4,100 IARs to replace 2,000 SAWs, but approximately 8,000 - 10,000 M249s will remain in service. This shows that the SAW isn't being replaced - more like supplemented. So don't worry, your M249 load out is still modern .

It seems to me that the Marines are simply making the Automatic Rifleman just that, a Marine with an automatic rifle. The trade off is magazine capacity, a quick change barrel, an open bolt, and rate of fire for accuracy, weight, and a piston system. On paper this sounds like a horrible trade, but this could be a life saver for foot mobile infantry wearing 70+ lbs of gear rucking in 100+ temperatures.

[KA-BAR]

thanks martin.

ASONW was the original supplier of my Echo 1 614. this was the base rifle that i used for this impression.

Martin had ASONW have always treated me fairly, go down to the store and ask the guys about a E1 614 if you are intrested in building a IAR impression.

[Eyes On]

HK... I wonder how many members of the Gunners Board are going to end up retiring to a nice cushy gig with HK.

[VogonFord]

HK... I wonder how many members of the Gunners Board are going to end up retiring to a nice cushy gig with HK.

Not as many as guys from the Pentagon who retire to Lockheed?

[Steve]

Now the big question: Is the Corps sticking to STANAG mags, or are they going to saddle their troops with C-Mags?

For the sake of the troops, I hope not. I have one. It's enough of a pain in the tail stateside to keep it up and running. Doing it in the desert sounds like way too much work.

If they do go with the Beta mags though, does that mean box-mags on M-4s are mil-sim now if you are in MARPAT?

[Snowman]

Realcap C-mags.

[Jewish Ninja]

I've heard Magpul is working on a quad stack mag for this. I'm sure Surefire will be trying to push their 60 and 100 round mags for the IAR as well.

[Pharaoh 2-6 (House)]

Now the big question: Is the Corps sticking to STANAG mags, or are they going to saddle their troops with C-Mags?

For the sake of the troops, I hope not. I have one. It's enough of a pain in the tail stateside to keep it up and running. Doing it in the desert sounds like way too much work.

If they do go with the Beta mags though, does that mean box-mags on M-4s are mil-sim now if you are in MARPAT?

The point behind the IAR is to not make they're LMG's primary targets, while still being able to have that cyclic rate of fire. It was also suppsoed to have single shot capabilities. Basically its an improved M16A1 that can fire from the open or closed bolt based on selector switch setting. Its just a waste of money. I have carried a basic combat load and then some in Iraq. basic combat load for a grunt is 7 mags...I carried 12 mags up front and 3 mags in Tactical tailor single stack triple mag pouch pointed towards the ground (For when someone in my squad needed ammo, they could grab them from my kit without having to A) make me turn around and hand them mags, B) allow me to engage targets keeping the volume of fire going. (Not to mention the 2 flashbangs, 2 hand grenades, and 1 smoke (sometimes 6 smoke grenades I carried on me for mission sets with high sniper threats like Diyala or Haifa Street) Not to mention the assualt pack we passed around the squad that had extra water/hydration salts/CLS bag. (its not that cool to stick one person with all the extra weight when you can pass the assualt pack around the squad) Point being thats a lot of weight, to carry around in 120 degree heat. Can you imagine how many 30 rounders that IAR-shooter will have to carry to keep that thing going in a fire fight? or what a drain it will add to already stressed squad resources? In a fire fight 210 rounds doesn't last very long...let alone the 1200 rounds a SAW gunner is expected to carry. And BTW C-Mags can be temperamental. The Marines can waste more government money on a glorified M16. I will stick to the tried and true M249.

[KA-BAR]

magpul has done some RnD on a triple stack M4 magazine that holds 100 rounds of ammo. fits in a regular sized mag pouch. mag looks wierd, it has a regular neck that fits into the magwell, then it bells its shape out to accomodate triple stacking.


i have seen pics of both Pmags and a metal GI type hi capacity magazine, that will be issued to the IAR gunners once they are approved.


ill do my best to post a pic of the new hi cap IAR 100 round mags.

[Pharaoh 2-6 (House)]

Me personally I cannot wait for this to roll out ( http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/xm307-acsw-e.html ) and replace the M2,Mk19,and 240b. I never got to live fire it, but I had to do crew drills with it, and dog and pony shows at Fort Lewis and Benning with that beast both mounted on a Stryker, and dismounted when I was a 240 gunner in Apache Company 1-23 INF in 2002

[Mini-Marine]

There is a lot of talk going around that the IAR as a replacement for the M249 is just a ruse, and the real purpose behind it is as a replacement for the M16/M4.

Well, we tried to use it as as a squad automatic, but it really didn't work out, however, it seems to work great as a carbine/rifle, and we've already got a bunch in inventory, so we're just gonna keep buying more as our M4s/M16s wear out. Oh yeah, and while we're at it, I guess it's time to bring back those SAWs these IARs were supposed to replace.

[KA-BAR]

this is a link to surefires submission to the IAR hi cap.

http://www.surefire.com/HighCapacityMagazines

[VogonFord]

There is a lot of talk going around that the IAR as a replacement for the M249 is just a ruse, and the real purpose behind it is as a replacement for the M16/M4.

Well, we tried to use it as as a squad automatic, but it really didn't work out, however, it seems to work great as a carbine/rifle, and we've already got a bunch in inventory, so we're just gonna keep buying more as our M4s/M16s wear out. Oh yeah, and while we're at it, I guess it's time to bring back those SAWs these IARs were supposed to replace.

Dear god, I hope that's true, but hopefully they drop the option for both closed and open bolt. It simply adds complexity for not much gain - for proof, look at the FG42.

this is a link to surefires submission to the IAR hi cap.

http://www.surefire.com/HighCapacityMagazines

And I hope that doesn't get into service. There is no way I can imagine that magazine being reliable - the STANAG magwell is already a nightmare as far as feeding reliability goes, and using something like that will bring the dreaded double column-single feed to the table (It still feeds two columns at the top, but the columns will have to come together at some point below the magwell, adding a place for cartridges to get jammed). Historical example of this is the MP40 magazine - incredibly temperamental and the worst part of the gun (On the Sten, which used the same magazine with worse build quality, it became infamous for jamming). Note that nobody complained about the Thompson's 20 and 30 round stick magazines jamming, seeing as that was a sane double column double feed design.

[shakespeare]

really vogon? are you in the service? will this affect your service career at all?


i thought not.

It seems to me that if a design is faulty and would cause the weapon to jam, servicemen might get hurt, which is bad and all of our concern.

I will say that the IAR is a cool concept, it just depends if they can get everything functioning well.