Echo1 MTC G36 starter gun and upgrades?

[soulEngine]

Hey all,

So, I'm totally new to airsoft. I have a Umarex Walther P99 DAO GBB that I LOVE, just wish it was a bit more accurate. Anyways. I originally wanted to start out as a sniper, but a lot of people have suggested I try a more "category 2" approach to start. So I was doing some research and looking into gun styles. Here is what I would like some help on.

I really like this gun, and the specs seem pretty good for a starter gun: http://www.airsplat.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=ER-E1-MTC-JP70

A few questions: Is this a good gun? How upgradable is it? Is Echo1 a pretty solid manufacturer?

My idea is that I could get this gun and play around with it for a while and eventually work on upgrading it into more of a sniper rifle caliber gun. Is that possible? I'd like to try and get it to 300 feet or so. Do AEGs work well as Sniper rifles?

What are people's thoughts on that? Or should I just bite the bullet and get two guns eventually?

[Spitfire]

Hey all,

So, I'm totally new to airsoft. I have a Umarex Walther P99 DAO GBB that I LOVE, just wish it was a bit more accurate. Anyways. I originally wanted to start out as a sniper, but a lot of people have suggested I try a more "category 2" approach to start. So I was doing some research and looking into gun styles. Here is what I would like some help on.

I really like this gun, and the specs seem pretty good for a starter gun: http://www.airsplat.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=ER-E1-MTC-JP70

A few questions: Is this a good gun? How upgradable is it? Is Echo1 a pretty solid manufacturer?

My idea is that I could get this gun and play around with it for a while and eventually work on upgrading it into more of a sniper rifle caliber gun. Is that possible? I'd like to try and get it to 300 feet or so. Do AEGs work well as Sniper rifles?

What are people's thoughts on that? Or should I just bite the bullet and get two guns eventually?

Echo 1 is pretty sweet, nonetheless it IS still a Chinese manufacture(unless it says Echo 1 USA). I've had an Echo 1 Mp5k PDW last me 3 years without needing any internal adjustments. I recently sold it, and the guy says it still runs just fine.

The sniper caliber is VERY possible, this is a kind of a sport where I've seen people convert pistols into 500 FPS dead-accurate sniper rifles. 300 feet however, is kind of a long shot. You're going to need a minimum of 6.03mm for a barrel, and it'll need to be a high-quality one, like Mad Bull/Promethius. That, a great-quality H-Nub, and a Systema hop-up bucking.

The barrel length being only 290mm, you are going to need a barrel extension and I'd say a 370mm minimum length barrel for accuracy. A longer barrel means that you will need a new cylinder, so if you want the best out of your gun you might as well do some shimming work, replace the bushings(if they are plastic), replace the spring guide(if its plastic/no bearing, get a metal one with bearings), and get a cylinder set to your barrel length. For the 300 foot range you're going to need a bigger spring, something in the 500 FPS range, like an M150 spring, but pulling back such a heavy spring will probably need a high-torque gear set and or a high-torque motor. High torque means you'll also need a new piston and piston head most likely.

High torque and such a high spring would also mean that you'd pretty much need to revamp every internal in the gun, and so in the end you'd probably pay more for the internals to turn your G36 into a sniper, than it would to just buy a decent bolt action sniper rifle. The thing is though, the G36 sniper rifle will be fully automatic, so its your choice on what you want.

Hope I helped.

[soulEngine]

Wow, thanks! That's a very informative post!

I double checked, and yeah, this gun is Echo1 USA & SOCOM Gear manufactured. It sounds like a lot of work to replace everything, but I'm sure I'd have fun with it.

Quick question. If I were do all of those upgrades, would there be anyway to quickly "down regulate" it or something, so if its a 500fps gun or so after upgrades, and I wanted to run it in a skimirsh, could I adjust it down to 400fps again, or is that just not possible? Thanks!

[Spitfire]

Wow, thanks! That's a very informative post!

I double checked, and yeah, this gun is Echo1 USA & SOCOM Gear manufactured. It sounds like a lot of work to replace everything, but I'm sure I'd have fun with it.

Quick question. If I were do all of those upgrades, would there be anyway to quickly "down regulate" it or something, so if its a 500fps gun or so after upgrades, and I wanted to run it in a skimirsh, could I adjust it down to 400fps again, or is that just not possible? Thanks!

Good! USA guns are a lot more reliable IMHO(think Classic Army).

The best way to have a lower FPS is to open up the mechbox and replace the spring. Not only will this give you less FPS, but lower tensions on springs gives you a higher rate of fire, that and having a lower powered spring will wear your gearbox a lot slower than a high-powered spring, and there is less chance of the mechbox cracking(even though V3 gearboxes do not crack very easily). However, many companies have came up with tricks to help you lower your FPS without needing internal modifications.

Mad Bull Crawler Barrel(Said to reduce by 100 FPS)
http://madbull.com/catalog/index.php?ma ... cts_id=218

Matrix Barrel Velocity Reducer - These only work on Semi-Auto only and are NOT reliable on high-FPS guns. Many fields do NOT allow these style of velocity reducers.
http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=29489

[code789]

Echo 1 is pretty sweet, nonetheless it IS still a Chinese manufacture(unless it says Echo 1 USA). I've had an Echo 1 Mp5k PDW last me 3 years without needing any internal adjustments. I recently sold it, and the guy says it still runs just fine.

echo1 is a reband company most of their products are rebrand of CYMA and Dboys which are made in china. "echo1 USA" is the full name of the company. most all airsoft guns will either be manufactured in taiwan, japan, hong kong, or china.

also if you want something that shoots far why are you choosing a base gun that has a short barrel? wasting $30+ for a barrel extension and $50+ for a new inner barrel just for a M4 length gun is a wast of money. and for a kid that's just into airsoft don't mess with the gearbox a M150 spring will crack the gearbox and if you don't shim it properly then you have $200 movie prop. in fact to even bother with upgrades for now run the gun as is and if you want to shoot up to 300ft learn to run 150ft forward

[Nodachi]

Good! USA guns are a lot more reliable IMHO(think Classic Army).

Classic Army is from Hong Kong.

[CommieHunter]

A couple of things:

First, all Echo1 guns are made overseas. Most are made in China, though the Platinum series is made in Taiwan as far as I know. Echo1 and Echo1 USA are the same company, one name is just shorter to type. There is no quality difference between the two, as every single Echo1 gun IS an Echo1 USA gun. Long name or shorter, but they're the same.

Second, I would recommend against attempting to make the MTC-3 into a 'sniper rifle'. There are a couple of reasons.
1) Less precise OEM means that it takes a lot more work, hand fitting parts, and buying more parts to make it shoot well. A more precise gun out of the box yields better results.
2) A longer barrel usually yields better accuracy (to a point). Attempting to extend the handguard and barrel on this model will probably not give you the results you want.
3) Most 'sniper rifles' are going to be bolt action, as they have a higher FPS limit. You can qualify for a DMR class if you make the AEG semi-auto-only, but that's a lower FPS than the bolt action.

Echo1 USA makes decent guns, but they're not going to be the precision machine you're dreaming of. I would check G&G, KWA, and VFC if you want a more accurate AEG. Additionally, the MTC-3 is an odd AEG. It uses the shortest barrel in the MTC series, but has a bulky, heavy stock that is not adjustable. The MTC-2 has a longer barrel, and is a lighter AEG with an adjustable stock. I would check it out if you like that series.

It's available here at Airsoft Outlet NW. They have better service than Airsplat, and any Echo1 gun should be the same price at either store, but AONW will check to make sure the gun works and help you with the warranty, if it ends up you do need to use it.

I would just buckle down and admit that you're going to need two rifles. One, a less expensive assault rifle to start out with, start learning the ropes, and get some experience. Two, once you know what you want, look for a more expensive, more precise rifle, either in a DMR or bolt action setup.

Spitfire is on with some info, but there's more to it. First, consider the FPS rules where you'll be playing. Many fields don't allow anything full-auto over 400FPS. Second, to make an electric gun over 450FPS often means extra stress on the internals, which can result in increased weapon failures. That can be expensive, especially for younger players.

He's right that with most AEGs, the only way to change the velocity is with a spring change. Unlike paintball, there is no quick adjustment to change muzzle velocity. Some guns do have a quick change spring, but it almost always takes at least a small amount of disassembly.

[Orwell]

3) Most 'sniper rifles' are going to be bolt action, as they have a higher FPS limit. You can qualify for a DMR class if you make the AEG semi-auto-only, but that's a lower FPS than the bolt action.

...

I would just buckle down and admit that you're going to need two rifles. One, a less expensive assault rifle to start out with, start learning the ropes, and get some experience. Two, once you know what you want, look for a more expensive, more precise rifle, either in a DMR or bolt action setup.

Spitfire is on with some info, but there's more to it. First, consider the FPS rules where you'll be playing. Many fields don't allow anything full-auto over 400FPS. Second, to make an electric gun over 450FPS often means extra stress on the internals, which can result in increased weapon failures. That can be expensive, especially for younger players.

In addition, there's this extremely helpful link. (eat it, Hamster. ) I'd read from that point on, as it's got some valuable information. Hunter says to admit you'll need two rifles; this is a good start. Furthermore, I'd suggest detaching from the sniper idea entirely. The reason people say play a while and then look at sniping is because the game is entirely different between those roles. Like Code said, learn to run the extra 150 ft. Then you'll know if you really want this or not.

Also, unrelated and almost unasked for, if you want a DMR platform with easy and universal upgrades, just buy an M4.

[Cloudyrains]

The sniper caliber is VERY possible, this is a kind of a sport where I've seen people convert pistols into 500 FPS dead-accurate sniper rifles. 300 feet however, is kind of a long shot. You're going to need a minimum of 6.03mm for a barrel, and it'll need to be a high-quality one, like Mad Bull/Promethius. That, a great-quality H-Nub, and a Systema hop-up bucking.

The barrel length being only 290mm, you are going to need a barrel extension and I'd say a 370mm minimum length barrel for accuracy. A longer barrel means that you will need a new cylinder, so if you want the best out of your gun you might as well do some shimming work, replace the bushings(if they are plastic), replace the spring guide(if its plastic/no bearing, get a metal one with bearings), and get a cylinder set to your barrel length. For the 300 foot range you're going to need a bigger spring, something in the 500 FPS range, like an M150 spring, but pulling back such a heavy spring will probably need a high-torque gear set and or a high-torque motor. High torque means you'll also need a new piston and piston head most likely.

There is a couple things in this statement I feel need some touching on. First off, to convert a gun to anything past 450 FPS (with semi auto only) and still be field legal around here it must be considered a bolt action platform. I could not, for example, upgrade a semi auto gas pistol/gun to above 450 FPS unless there was some mechanism that required me to, between shots, physically alter something on the gun, like pulling back a bolt. For instance, you could potentially (correct me if I am wrong here) mod a pistol to not pull the slide back after every shot, forcing you to pull the slide back to re-chamber a round and prep the trigger mechanism, similar to a spring pistol. However, I would imagine this would lead to some confusion at games as it wont be apparent that you are classified as a bolt action platform, so I really think it would be best to forgo this particular route. If you really want to go the sniping route your best bet is to just get a bolt. Also, H-nubs have really only shown to improve shot groupings in the sense of making them more ovular, instead of circular. Considering the human body is a much more ovular target than a circular one, I think they help, although maybe a tad over-hyped for what they are meant to do.

On barrel length, it is a very common misconception in the world of airsoft that a longer barrel equals a more accurate gun. On the contrary, accuracy is most affected by your cylinder's volume matched up to the length of your barrel, as you pointed out. However, in some cases, even this is a tad wonky. For instance, the VSR-10 has shown to work best with the stock 420mm length barrel, although the cylinders in them have a huge volume. However, I am a strong believer in that the hopup is the most important factor on your BB's accuracy, and that a decent tightbore barrel at or above 6.03 (I can extrapolate on that more if you want, give me a PM) will not hurt, but will not have nearly as strong of an impact on your accuracy as your hopup. Look in to mods such as the R-hop, teflon taping your bucking, floss modding your bucking, and shimming your hopup arm. Those simple mods (bar the R-hop) would give you much tighter groupings and possibly range just with an hour of your time and some common household items.

[Spartanacus]

The gun looks cool, which is about all it has going for it.

I see a few problems with this gun. Virtually all magwell conversions for the G36 to take M4 magazines have feed and wobble issues. You won't like that. And G36 mags are bulky and don't fit in anything. You won't like those either. So a G36 may not be for you.

If you plan on upgrading this to have decent accuracy, rate of fire, and durability, you'll likely spend much more than buying a KWA G36c, which is worth the extra $65 as long as you don't plan on messing with the internals.

If you want a DMR, fps max is 475 and you have to disable full auto. But this can be very, very expensive if you actually want to hit anything past 150', as I'm learning with my AUG

[Orwell]

I see a few problems with this gun. Virtually all magwell conversions for the G36 to take M4 magazines have feed and wobble issues. You won't like that. And G36 mags are bulky and don't fit in anything. You won't like those either. So a G36 may not be for you.

-Accepts M4 Magazines

It's not a G36.

[Spartanacus]

Derp, thread title threw me.

Edit: Actually, looks like it uses the same pattern G36 magwell M4 conversion, so the same criticism applies.

[Spitfire]

Oops, sorry bout the errors. It is very true that any field in their right mind wont allow a full-auto 500 FPS gun. 500 FPS will crack your gun definetely sooner or later, and if your shims are slightly off, your gun is gone. As stated above.

I thought Classic Army was U.S.A. My friends lie. I also had some pre-concieved idea that Echo 1 USA was a company in USA and they had a branch in China. That's totally wrong now that I think of it...

I could not, for example, upgrade a semi auto gas pistol/gun to above 450 FPS unless there was some mechanism that required me to, between shots, physically alter something on the gun, like pulling back a bolt. For instance, you could potentially (correct me if I am wrong here) mod a pistol to not pull the slide back after every shot, forcing you to pull the slide back to re-chamber a round and prep the trigger mechanism, similar to a spring pistol.

With expert work , I heard of someone placing a small hunk of eraser(from a pencil...) right behind the hammer(on the striking surface) on an M1911 GBB. The hammer would then not fly all the way forward. Because of this, the slide had to be pulled back all the way back every time to shoot the gun. It was originally done to make the gun quieter, but I guess it has some other uses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tVXLfT07H0