JBAR 10 > KJW M700

[malik]

I always thought the M700 was pretty good. But I just read a forum where almost everyone agreed that the BAR10 is more accurate, better consistently, and simply better. Is this true? Is there a BAR 10 that is not a JG?

[Rentax]

The KJW M700 has an usually good reputation... A while back i was looking into getting one and found that they have many, many, problems from the get go. Including the teeth on the magazine shaving the BB's as it loads them into the chamber (causing poor accuracy and even poorer consistency). The replica, when originally produced was very nice... It is a gas platform, with adjustable FPS, and when it originally came out was one of the first of that kind. However Since then many new replicas have come out and the KJW has remained the same. I know nothing of the BAR 10, but it would not surprise me if many people thought the newer version of newer guns held up better, shot straighter, or had better consistency.
From what I've read in order to make the KJW M700 a "good" sniper platform you would have to do some major over hauling on the replica. And many people don't like having to drop the cost of the gun in upgrades to get it in "good" shape.

[malik]

Thanks. I think I'll look in to a stock JG BAR 10... Cheap, reliable, upgradeable. Unless I'm horribly mistaken...?

[malik]

Alright, thanks.

[Beran]

I know several people that use the BAR-10, and they've been upgraded to the point that they preform better than any KJW M700.

The end.

that is a statement i would love to see backed up in practical application against some of the M700s that have been worked by an owner that knows what they are doing. my M700 is a casual project with maybe $400 into it including the gun, and it will hit a man sized target at 250 feet with ease. i know of at least one other M700 owned by someone on AP with even better performance.

the downside that ive seen with the M700 is they require more regular maintenance than the spring guns, and when they aren't converted to HPA they lose a lot of their effectiveness in cold weather. just like any sniper rifle, if you buy and install good parts and maintain it properly its a fantastic rifle. a lot of the complaints i see with M700s is kids that see the $200 price tag and 500fps velocity and assume its going to make them into some kind of bolt action god, then when they don't take care of it or don't set it up properly they blame the rifle. ive seen plenty of well tuned M700s wreaking havoc on the field in the right hands. i saw one man with a suppressed M700 hold off a dozen guys across a creek bed at carlton. they couldn't find him at all, and he was picking them off like it was nothing at 250+ feet through brush.

[Deleteplz]

What Josh said.

Seriously, I've seen well tuned KJW M700's shoot outrageously long distances for airsoft. Plus the short "required" bolt travel means that you can get a second shot in fast if needed.

[Beran]

the upside ive seen with spring bolt guns is that they are more consistent year round. i haven't upgraded to HPA on my M700, and during the nicer weather (admittedly not the majority of the year though) my shots are usually within a few FPS of each other as long as im not shooting as fast as i can.

either choice is a viable option for a bolt platform, provided its well maintained and tweaked. i haven't owned any of the new generation of "affordable" spring guns, but i have experience with pretty much all of the original platforms most of them are based on. one of the main issues ive had with most of the spring guns has been too much strain on the sears that keep it from firing until you want it to. i had to replace parts of the trigger mechanism on my APS2 once and twice on the M24. never did have to on the M40, but that was all wood and steel and cost like six hundred bucks before upgrades. the VSR10 i owned i didn't hang onto long enough to find out, because i didn't like how short the barrel was and wasn't impressed with the accuracy out past 200 feet. in contrast, the only money ive spent on my M700 is on upgrade parts. i haven't had to replace anything due to breakage in the three years ive owned it, just lubricate seals and tighten screws. the trigger pull is also much better than most stock triggers in a spring rifle, since you don't have to overcome the tension of that big spring. that can be overcome with an aftermarket trigger pack in some guns (sometimes called a zero trigger), but those can be expensive.

i don't claim to be the be all end all of bolt platforms, but ive spent quite a lot of time behind both the spring and gas guns, and so far out of the dozen or so that ive owned over the years, the M700 is one of my favorites.

[Flak]

Or you just live in Arizona and not have to worry about environmental factors of gas pressure

[malik]

Right... What is a HPA? How much are they? What do they do exactly? From what I am getting,

KJW M700 with HPA is GOOD
KJW M700 w/out HPA...controverial
BAR 10, good, but not beating M700 with HPA?

KJW~$200+ stock
BAR 10~$100 stock

[Deleteplz]

Just an FYI Malik, I don't think many people on here will tell you much about a HPA rig for that rifle, as they don't want every j0en00b running around with HPA's, they can be dangerous to the user and the person being shot at if the user is a total douche'.

[malik]

Oh... Google it is then.=) Thanks though.

[Nox]

One of my guys on my team uses a BAR10, I use an M700 with an HPA rig - we're both consistent on our shots and get pretty much the same range. His has been more consistent as I have had a jinky hopup bucking in mine, but since replacing it with a firefly bucking, our accuracies are starting to coincide - so it all depends on what you are mostly interested in carrying.
We've both been able to hit a powerline transformer at 250+ feet consistently (dont worry kids, it was on a dead pole) and while I do have to give him props for the accuracy of his gun I have to give props to the M700 for the silent operation and ease to work the action - he has to give his a good yank to set a round, while I can work the action on mine with a pinky AND can short stroke the bolt if I need to get a second shot off quickly. With the addition of a suppressor that actually *works* I can have someone standing 20 feet away and not hear me fire (I've proven that) while a spring gun has few options to keep it quiet. He had to spend a considerable amount of money to get a zero point trigger for his - the M700 comes witha fully adjustable one..

What I'm saying is basically both platforms have pros and cons - it all depends on what time and effort you are willing to put in to them.

[CBeran]

I have run both the KJW M700 and several spring bolt platforms (TM VSR-10, CA M24, TSD L96). One thing that I do like about the spring platform over gas is the precision accuracy that can be achieved with relatively low cost and labor. I recently took my bone stock TSD L96 and put one of the Echo 1 ASR upgrade kits into the cylinder. I was impressed with the accuracy and consistency shot to shot, often being able to hit within a quarter sized area at around 100ft.

As far as my experience with the VSR-10 and its clones, I would not recommend it. With the bad stock sears you cannot upgrade the spring to desirable FPS and expect them to stay intact for very long. Even with upgraded Laylax steel sears and a Laylax piston, I was still having problems getting everything to work right. If you are going to go the spring route, I would recommend some brand of L96 (UTG, TSD, etc) due to the fact that they use the APS2 design, which in my opinion has better stock sears that will last longer.

The KJW M700 is a fairly decent gas replica. I definitely do not get the consistency out of my M700 that I do with one of my springers such as the L96. What I do get is power and speed. Without the need to pull back a big spring between each shot I can quickly take a follow up shot if needed. This can also come in handy if you are lying prone with a ghillie suit as it requires less shifting to rack the bolt.

Positives of running a spring replica:
-Great shot to shot consistency
-Good power
-Cheap mags
-Lots of upgrade parts
Downside to running a spring replica:
-Heavy bolt pull due to spring
-Bad sears depending on replica

Positives to running a gas replica:
-No resistance from a spring
-Decent power
-Quiet
-Longer barrel
Some down sides to the gas rifles would be:
-Bad performance in the winter
-Expensive mags
-General inconsistency
-High maintenance
-Less options for upgrade parts

I hope this helps.

[malik]

That is very helpful to me. Simple, and straight forward. What is the average strength required for as bolt-action? As in... What does it feel like you're pulling when cocking it?

[malik]

Aren't L96s giant? I don't think I could even reach the trigger on one of them from the pics I've seen... 12" from the rear of the stock to the trigger is about my maximum.