Goat-Gate

[Braddock]

Dan, part of the bigger problem is that your reputation precedes you and your team. You started with an uphill battle. Leaving dead goat remains at an airsoft event just made your uphill battle even longer.
There is a lot of resentment in the airsoft community towards you and your team. We are supposed to be a bunch of friends getting together to shoot each other. Casual taunting and heckling are also part of it. But you and your team seemed to have taken it too far. Every airsoft community needs the "opfor/badguy" team, that doesn't mean you have to be a bunch of assholes to accomplish that.

[McNair]

I don't think anyone was an asshole persay. There are people on here that are butthurt about PLA apparently being assholes, that are constant assholes on the forums.

It's just people who constantly give shit to people getting it in return and not being able to take it.

[Darius137]

Dan, part of the bigger problem is that your reputation precedes you and your team. You started with an uphill battle. Leaving dead goat remains at an airsoft event just made your uphill battle even longer.
There is a lot of resentment in the airsoft community towards you and your team. We are supposed to be a bunch of friends getting together to shoot each other. Casual taunting and heckling are also part of it. But you and your team seemed to have taken it too far. Every airsoft community needs the "opfor/badguy" team, that doesn't mean you have to be a bunch of assholes to accomplish that.

As PLA progresses, we go through different phases. We're past the ape thing, and caring about MOLLE, but we're still stuck in that mode until we get a few new training events up with all the new players. We've sort of grown a little too fast, and now we've got to train up who we have before we get any bigger.

Heckling was fine when we were smaller, but then it became bullying. We toned it down, but everyone's on the defensive now (in the AP community, at least), and sensitive. Our current ape-mockery isn't very harsh compared to a few months ago.

We're working on moving towards a more military structure, away from ape mockery and more towards platoon level drills.

But the more people complain about ape mockery, and pick at PLA members, the more they fight back. We're not changing due to the pressure of the community because their feelings got hurt. We're changing because we want to do something different.


But I do know what you're saying, and we're working away from it.

[Braddock]

I think you guys have the right idea, a dedicated opfor type team is always(assuming that is your goal) welcome.
Terra first is a prime example. Those guys move great out on the field and really kick a$$. BUT, they are also a bunch of great guys.
I guess what I am saying is that you can be that team that you want to be, without antagonizing the community in the process. Show us with your actions and lead by example.

We have a great community here, you are a relatively new team and how you are seen and regarded in the community is really up to you.

cya on the field...

[Darius137]

I think you guys have the right idea, a dedicated opfor type team is always(assuming that is your goal) welcome.
Terra first is a prime example. Those guys move great out on the field and really kick a$$. BUT, they are also a bunch of great guys.
I guess what I am saying is that you can be that team that you want to be, without antagonizing the community in the process. Show us with your actions and lead by example.

We have a great community here, you are a relatively new team and how you are seen and regarded in the community is really up to you.

cya on the field...

We're working on it.

We are not dedicating to being OPFOR, per se, but simulating a ragtag militia/3rd world military force that is fighting the true cause, whatever that cause may be.

[McNair]

actually, PLA was around before you were in the community, tool. it just took a hiatus

[Bad Karma]

We're not a team, we're an Army.

The term team is for groups that hang out at pizza parlours and get matching bowling shirts with their names on it, vying for plastic trophies.

And that is exactly why you will never achieve the level of camaraderie and strength that organizations like Mithril, PSC, SOTA and others have. Airsoft is supposed to be a collection of friends and equals that get together to have fun with one another, on and off the field. You learn to trust your teammates and learn their strengths and weaknesses by bonding with them and spending time together. You will never attain what you seek as long as you continue to treat your "army members" as subordinates in your little Third Reich. As I said before, actions speak louder than words; just because you can all yell "Viva!" together and have created pretty little platoons and fire-teams and ranks does not make you unified.

PLA is a lot closer to a 9th grade PE class than an army. A few gym instructors who were never good enough to coach varsity watching a bunch of rowdy kids knocking the same tired tether-ball around in circles.

Winning isn't our big deal. PLA's "Big Deal" is training events and providing events as cheap as possible.

Bullshit, Dan. I can't tell you how many times over the past few months I've heard many PLA members running their mouths about how PLA has "won every game [you've] competed in." While I don't recall you ever having said this directly, we all know that policy is made at the top in every organization, and yours is no exception. So you came to CEIV unable to live up to the expectations you set for yourselves and now you're trying to downplay the fact that you ever had any interest in winning.

And Karma will be Karma--100 lbs. of teenager that likes to argue on the internet or correct people's grammar and make new players not want to get into airsoft.

I have four new recruits on my team, three of whom have never touched an airsoft gun until quite recently. I give them plenty of encouragement.

That aside, instead of poor attempts at insults, please tell me how any of my "feminine high-pitched screaming" has been off-base. I've been waiting intently for a legitimate response from you that didn't involve shifting blame around and downplaying your negligence. It's unfortunate you take criticism so poorly, and need to resort to name-calling to make yourself feel better.

Goat remains are much better to leave behind than soda cans. I know it's odd to a large majority of eSofters here, since they are more accustomed to a computer desk littered with Mountain Dew cans than the carcass of the animal they eat.

BUT animals decompose in the earth. You can bury the remains, you can let the dogs eat them. They can just sit there, and they'll be gone a helluva lot quicker than cans. Not that this was our intent, but because people on the forum are in the IT department of airsoft, they think it's shocking and disgusting.

-The owners, as we were patrolling through cleaning.....specifically mentioned one campsite. It was thrashed. It also had a few cafeteria trays.....random garbage.....

Leaving the fact that you see nothing at all wrong with leaving a severed goat's head in an working orchard on private property aside, how quickly do you figure those plastic cafeteria trays will degrade?

And what's with this eSofter shit you've concocted out of thin air?

Actually, I know what it is. The "ape" thing got really tired so you need a new go-to slur with which enables you to paint a bunch of people you don't like with the same brush. You are no better than the elitists you claim to hate, perhaps even worse. Nothing new here, people, move along.

And I have no idea who the 2-3 other people are. Apparently a few people hate me or PLA that I or PLA don't know. I take that as a compliment.

I can assure you the number is substantially higher than 2-3.

PLA is working with BSP. We'll try to talk to the field owners. I think this can be worked out when it's just the adults in the room.

They're still waiting for you to leave.

What bothers me about this whole deal is that we have a lot of people screaming with their heads cut off about something that isn't even the main issue. The issue is us not policing our campsite. It has nothing to do with goat.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. As Bill clearly stated, admins expect to have to pick up some trash here and there after a game. Dismembered animal parts don't fit in the same class as beer cans and MRE wrappers. So, it actually has everything to do with the goat.

PLA is working on this internally. We have our own forums, and they're not hidden. We have a leaders meeting at the end of this month as well. I am happy this happened, as it will only make us stronger. I have never taken much weight on the eSofters' complaint factory, unless they have valid points.

Is that like how a police force does an "internal investigation" after a cop shoots a handicapped dude having a seizure and they give a press release saying that they did not find the officer to have done anything wrong?

Also, again with the eSofter thing. Sorry I'm not as badass and hardcore as you. I'm actually writing this from my desk at my IT company right now, coincidentally enough.

[Darius137]

I'm sorry Karma, but I am not DMitri.

If you want me to read a ten page response picking apart a year of thread posts, you're going to have to make it succinct.

[Bad Karma]

I'm sorry Karma, but I am not DMitri.

If you want me to read a ten page response picking apart a year of thread posts, you're going to have to make it succinct.

It was all posts made in the past 24 hours. Try again.

Also, If you want my posts to be shorter, don't write so much stupid shit to respond to.

[McNair]

Blahblahblahblahblah.

[static]

Pretty much.

[Bad Karma]

Blahblahblahblahblah.

What else would you expect from me, Josh?

[Seagreen]

A few of the PLA members showed up unannounced and picked up some stuff that was missed Sunday. Thanks.

Dan, I'll hit you up as soon as a build party gets locked down.

[k3gn3123512]

Dismembered animal parts don't fit in the same class as beer cans and MRE wrappers.

You will never attain what you seek as long as you continue to treat your "army members" as subordinates in your little Third Reich

Leaving the fact that you see nothing at all wrong with leaving a severed goat's head in an working orchard on private property aside,

Is that like how a police force does an "internal investigation" after a cop shoots a handicapped dude having a seizure and they give a press release saying that they did not find the officer to have done anything wrong?

These are my favorite quotes from Bad Karmas post. I'm not taking any sides here but those quotes were quiet amusing.

[McNair]

Blahblahblahblahblah.

What else would you expect from me, Josh?

Growing the shazaam up and getting over it as it's been taken care of.