[OP] Red Storm - Lion Claws

[Cyclops]

Our team wont be going just because of the costs. We see it as we could join SEVERAL other events and have multiple days and weekends to this one event. Someone mention $50 I could see that happening but $200 is insane.

[ClownBaby]

Dudes, it's not that unsafe. I've lived 5 minutes from the mill for bout 20yrs. I believe I was the first person to say it was bad, it's not that bad. If you'll look at the pics again you'll see that overall the floors are clean and solid. Same with the steel catwalks. No big bends, holes, or big rust patches. There is a lot of junk outside, but it's pushed into piles.(And all that's on cement) Now the only real safety issue at the mill that I've seen is the exterior wood walkways, stairs, and lil rooms that link these to the metal/cement buildings. I think thouse make up about, maybe 3% of the AO. In my earlier posts I was trying to build a little excitement, not start a shitstorm!

I say to everyone, if you have the ability to go to the bluff and check it out yourselves, do so. Even if you can't go to the game, go see a part of old Oregon. Theirs been an active mill there since 1866. The mill was built on top of the of the first settlement outside of Ft. Vancouver, claimed buy Jon McLaughlin of the Hudson Bay Company. Claimed/Stolen from the Indians, which believe it to be a holy fishing site, put there by the gods to provide fish during the long winters.... And just like everything thing cool in Oregon. It will be bulldozed, and turned into MORE overpriced yuppie housing. neat.( Would also be an awesome place to watch the game from.)

Is $200 high? Yeah, it is. Is the AO worth it? Totally. Just think how fast $200 lasts at the bar, the airsoft store, or a day out with the wife and kids. Not long. Does anyone have any suggestions on what props they would like to see? Let's try and figure out ways to make the game better.

[Shortbu]

I think my posts regarding safety have been taken a little harsh as well. Keep in mind all of my info has come second hand,albeit from people who HAVE actually been to the site. I'm not trying to discourage, or bad mouth anybody, as I personally can't stand some of the crap that's been flying around here lately.
There are just some concerns I have, that I would like to see addressed before I shell out that kind of cash. $200 isn't a huge amount of money to me, but when you throw in taking Friday off work as well, it more than doubles the cost. I would be willing to do it, if I felt it were safe, and my boss lets me take the day off. I have a family to feed, am in middle of recovery from a knee surgery that is making me take at least 3 weeks off. I agree $200 goes pretty fast for most activities. That's not the issue for me.
I'm very hesitant to post my actual safety concerns in detail, as I don't want to deal with reading the negative/bashing crap that's been fairly prevalent lately. I know the concerns have been stated by others, although not on here, so when I see they've been addressed, I will make my decision to attend or not.
I honestly hope these issues ARE ADDRESSED, and I can play hooky for a day, and come play. The place looks pretty awesome,and has great potential to be a great event, just not at the expense of safety.
Hopefully, issues are addressed, people can put aside their differences, and work together for the better of the community. This is a game we obviously all love, and all the petty stuff is really hurting the game, and our community.

[ClownBaby]

You truly are a smart man bus. (we talked outside ThunderKiss last summer about open drinking at events)

I would like to know what concerns you have. I believe everyone has calmed down from the flinging earlier. I assume you mean it's been talked about on FB? Think it would help if we all continue to TALK about it here. Is it the engagement distances that are your primary concern?

I seriously hope everyone can chill the hell out. And to everyone, if you don't want to come to this game please don't crap on it for the rest of us.

Thank you

[Shortbu]

Since I've seen the MED for snipers set at 100', it's not as big of a concern. I'm more concerned with some of the actual field areas. There are some areas that were brought to my attention at the location myself. I would really like to go to the site, and make my own opinion, but I literally can not walk very far with my knee issue. I know Adam is a key element in this game, and I will be back up at AONW to pick up a bunch of guns I'm having worked on. So, I will discuss it with him in person. That way we can avoid things being taken out of context, and maybe come with some solutions together. In my interactions with him in the past, I found him to be level headed, and I'm sure he'd be willing to discuss it with me. I just don't want to post it publicly, and stir the pot. Especially when I haven't been there personally. There has been waaaaay to much that's been taken out of context, by people on all sides of the arguments, and I don't want to be counterproductive to the community.
Now that we have more fields to play on (ie, Splat Action, Canby, Ivan's in Silverton, Canyonview in Silverton, the Carlton fields, Sniperz Den, my field when I can get it going, and various others) it seems the divisions between airsofters gets bigger, and people get nastier. There's a beef between a couple of people on different teams, and now the entire teams take issue, and talk about each other. People get defensive, and pop-off on a public forum. It's all counterproductive, and it's time we ALL start working together, and build this into what it could be, rather than being part of what gives airsoft a bad name.

[ClownBaby]

I agree 100%

Worst part is it wastes everyones time. (And it makes us look like asshats to the children)

We all know how hard it can be to throw a game, even when theres not poop in the air. So, if anyone can do anything to assist Adam I'm sure he would appreciate the help.

As far as the AO's safety level goes, please don't start roping off a bunch of areas. There should areas that are off limits, and areas that are up to the player. Having these marked like they would on ski runs might work? Just an idea. Because personally I'm going to this game to play against the map itself, not you guys. The challenge for me, is to make myself tactically effective in a very chaotic environment. In real life the military suffers around 40% of all it's injuries/fatalities do to deceleration in urban environments.

Gravity: Works 24hrs a day!

[Matt]

Honestly I wish the event wasn't semi auto only. We did CQC competitions all the time, they were never semi auto only, but we did limit FPS to 330. If you are wearing the proper equipment that any entry team would wear, engagement distances don't matter. It's going to hurt like a phony pony. Safety kills and safe engagement DO NOT WORK for CQC/CQB. It just completely ruins the game and the entire experience. The whole point is quickly reacting to targets and taking them out, or NOT firing if they are friendly. I don't want to hear "bang, you're dead," I'm not 8 years old. Just shoot me.

For the AO, safety is a valid concern, but again with the proper equipment you should be fine. The AO in Victorville had piles of broken glass everywhere, that I simply walked over with my boots. It's not ideal, but then again it wouldn't be a cool AO if the entire thing were cleaned up, and it would be damn near impossible given the size. We have 2 extremes here. An extremely safe AO is like a speedball course with inflatable bunkers at a paintball field. On the other hand an extremely dangerous AO has fall hazards from high up, objects you could impale yourself on, trip hazards, etc. You gotta find a sweet spot somewhere in the middle, and I don't think LC would put players in a situation that was extremely dangerous. But it's still dangerous enough to be a cool AO.

[Payback]

I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned, or might even be required, but i have worked in old mills for a long while before i got smart

And the biggest safety issue you will find is hitting your head on nearly everything. So i would wear a helmet, and if you do, i would remove all the fancy lights and gizmo's from the top because they will more than likely get bumped off, or broken.

These old mills have their issues, if the danger spots are blocked, then you'll be fine. But you know there will be a few asshats that are so milsim they go outside the marked barriers.

And for the $200 price, i don't think it's too high for this type of gameplay. I won't go because it's out of my price range, but i can see the cost reasoning. Plus, having it higher keeps allot of the speedsoft kids away, and more than likely makes it a little more milsim like they want.

[Shortbu]

I agree with you Matt. I'm not asking for,nor would I want a speedball course. This isn't paintball, and it isn't what anybody is going to sign up for. And no I'm not talking about roping off complete areas. I'am talking about safing off areas that are SERIOUS safety hazards, ie... falling off high points, into pits, onto things. I definitely don't want to play in a padded freakin' room, I'm only talking about serious issues. I do understand it's an 18 and over only event, and I think the field looks awesome.
Airsofters seek the same situations dictated in their game environments as real war. I want that as well, but fall hazards are very serious. I watched a 6'4" guy, who competed in triathlons, fall 5' off a ladder. He fell on flat concrete, with a 2" tall concrete curb. Injuries= concusion, broken jaw, 3 broken ribs, broken wrist, stitches in his eyebrow, induced into a coma, and now has brain damage. There's a diiference between some pantie waist saying "ooh it's so dangerous", and people with legit safety concerns. I don't want to see people get seriously hurt, or worse, and I feel the issues can be mitigated without major effort, or impact to the AO.

[Chainsaw]

John Lu just posted this on the Facebook page for this event,
"We promise regional sponsors and players that we give it a week and if this type of AO is not suitable for the region, we'll move on."

A lot of guys have talked about LC, and wondered when the NW would get national attention. Now we have it, but if we don't take advantage of it, that's on us. It is time to put your money where your mouth is, otherwise we might never see a LC event in our area again.

[Jester316]

John Lu just posted this on the Facebook page for this event,
"We promise regional sponsors and players that we give it a week and if this type of AO is not suitable for the region, we'll move on."

A lot of guys have talked about LC, and wondered when the NW would get national attention. Now we have it, but if we don't take advantage of it, that's on us. It is time to put your money where your mouth is, otherwise we might never see a LC event in our area again.

Honestly with MilSim West, and other event promoters in this area, I don't think it would be missed... We've gone this long without them, and we've been fine...


Hopefully the people who shell out the money for this event have fun. With the information that has been given to us at this point, I won't be going. I also don't have $200 to shell out for this anyways.

Adam: I'm sure you know, but AMR ambulance is the provider for Oregon City. Might want to coordinate a response plan with them.

[Pacman]

The whole point is they were here for Tradewinds and were shutdown trying to get Tradewinds 2 off the ground suffice to say there has been national attention before. MSW has been steadily putting together events that regularly attract the players involved in NW Milsim and they do it in a more affordable manner.

[tucansam21]

All respect to to Milsim West as it seems they put on high quality events, but I don't want to play with blanks. Both can coexist but I like what I see LC doing and for that I will pay 200 dollars. But full auto would be nice too.

[tumbledry]

I'm pretty sure I'm passing on this. Looks like a slick AO but the price and reputation is not worth gambling.

[Jester316]

All respect to to Milsim West as it seems they put on high quality events, but I don't want to play with blanks. Both can coexist but I like what I see LC doing and for that I will pay 200 dollars. But full auto would be nice too.

You do understand that blanks aren't required right?