No-Shows

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Postby Riddick » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:23 pm

you're right Nic, it does work both ways. Which is why I have made changes to how I get food and when to make sure I never fall victim to that sort of loss. If I choose to spend money and I fall short thats my fault.

Some fields we have pizza, some are bbq. People probally think I am changing it up but really it's all about how close a little ceasers is or a costco is to the field.

In my event planning I always use a figure of about 25 - 30% of the net fees I get off players that say they are coming to use for production cost. I figure this way worst case scenario I would break even if the bottom fell out and the event is a disaster.

Well this has been great but I have shit to build for this weekend. see you guys there or not ;-)
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Postby Nocte » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:25 pm

If I ever do food at a game I host (which is unlikely), I will probably follow your example, Rick. I think that's the best way to do it, if you are going to feed people at all.
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Postby Riddick » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:28 pm

Nocte wrote:If I ever do food at a game I host (which is unlikely), I will probably follow your example, Rick. I think that's the best way to do it, if you are going to feed people at all.


I tried to help SOTA at MADJAT but they didn't listen and wasted money on food. Then at bloodlines I told them to wait until registration is over then with that paid registration count buy your food. Go have someone (which was me) get it for you and bring it back. It saved them a bunch of money that day and stuff was barely wasted if any at all.

everyone: COSTCO is your friend for food. for events and don't wasn't money on premium pop. Nobody cares when they are eating your tasty BBQ.
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Postby Matt » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:31 pm

Zeta Crossfire wrote:From what's been said the fear of pre-pay is that if the promoter cancels there's a chance that players won't get there money back, but what if players pre pay not to the promoter, but to a trusted 3rd party AP member someone like matt or someone else? Still might have it's share of problems like the 3rd party guy running off with the money, but its an idea.


I've dabbled with the idea of building an advanced RSVP registration system and letting game promoters use it, but there's a lot of considerations to be made before I can open up something like that. I don't think the money has to be held by somebody else, it just needs to be secure and professional transaction.

The process has to be easy to understand and simple to do. No 3rd party sites to register for, no confusing shopping cart hoops to jump through. Some folks have done things like go through store's shopping carts, this annoys the hell out of me. It's a confusing process if you aren't already in their system.

Or even make an intermediate system for non-payment registration that still requires information given. Then you'd have a name, address, phone number for each person who registered. When you have to give your information to sign up, you think twice about signing up if you aren't sure that you can make it.

In my mind if i prepay for a game I'm looking for more effort on promoters than what traditionally has been shown


And this.
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Postby Catch22 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:32 pm

As a player I can say, Nopost noshows definately effect some games. A host plans a game for the people that are signed up. When one side is missing 20 to 30 of the people that signed up. The event host has to scramble to make up for the dificiency and still try to make the game fun and winnable for either side. One team getting rolled all day, because a large number flaked isn't fun. Have a little courtesy and post if you can't make it.
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Postby afatcow » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:35 pm

I really do think that pre-pay is the way to go, and I'm honestly surprised that it wasn't an option with LoW. A pre pay pretty much guarantees attendance, because it can be a headache to get your money back.

Also, I don't see the real fear with pre-pay because people who are big and well known in the community (e.g. Riddick, SOTA) are not likely to scam everyone and move out of town. (Hello, C-TAC!)
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Postby Unconventional » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:53 pm

Matt wrote:The process is flawed. What do we consider a registered attendee? A kid on a forum who replies and says "I'll be there," who's profile says his real name is Seymor Butts? You can't really base decisions on buying food for a large group of people on data like that. I am sorry to see event hosts get burned, but unfortunately they made a mistake.

What about contingency plans for excess amounts of food? Donate it? Freeze it for next time? Is a COSTCO package of hot dogs even worth crying over? I have a hard time feeling bad about the food thing. But I do understand that it really sucks when you try to build squads and setup a mil-sim event and half the people don't show up. Or worse, the majority of 1 side of your OP doesn't show up so you have to change your whole game on the fly to make it fair... or move people. That sucks.




So very true and not something event planners like to go through.
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Postby Unconventional » Fri Nov 12, 2010 1:56 pm

Catch22 wrote:As a player I can say, Nopost noshows definately effect some games. A host plans a game for the people that are signed up. When one side is missing 20 to 30 of the people that signed up. The event host has to scramble to make up for the dificiency and still try to make the game fun and winnable for either side. One team getting rolled all day, because a large number flaked isn't fun. Have a little courtesy and post if you can't make it.



We've had that happen so much down here that they (Ft. Ord, Ca) set up a 3 strikes rule for those who register but don't send in a formal cancellation message a week before the event. A person gets 3 times to cancel at anytime before the event. After the 3rd time they cancel, another person gets their spot and they can not pre-register or pre-pay at the pre-pay discount. They can still show up the morning of the event and attend but they have to pay the non-discounted rate when they show up at the event and they may lose out on the side they wanted to run on. It has worked well.

We don't really attend the Ft. Ord meets much anymore, though, due to the all the dweebs that go there and shoot at anything that moves with no mental capacity to complete the objectives. We finally found another events coordinator at a large private field. What a refreshing time it has been since Ord..
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Postby dos_Santos » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:07 pm

Riddick wrote:
Nocte wrote:If I ever do food at a game I host (which is unlikely), I will probably follow your example, Rick. I think that's the best way to do it, if you are going to feed people at all.


I tried to help SOTA at MADJAT but they didn't listen and wasted money on food. Then at bloodlines I told them to wait until registration is over then with that paid registration count buy your food. Go have someone (which was me) get it for you and bring it back. It saved them a bunch of money that day and stuff was barely wasted if any at all.

everyone: COSTCO is your friend for food. for events and don't wasn't money on premium pop. Nobody cares when they are eating your tasty BBQ.


If you can swing it, Restaurant Depot is better than Costco; Cash-n-Carry too!
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Postby toddski » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:19 pm

Hey there Matt.
We have been battling the same issue up North.
This is what we have been working on...
http://www.1st-sword.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3021
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Postby Zeta Crossfire » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:25 pm

toddski wrote:Hey there Matt.
We have been battling the same issue up North.
This is what we have been working on...
http://www.1st-sword.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3021


Any cancellation 5+ days prior to an event: Warning! If you do it again in a 12-month period, you will be placed on the Stand-By Roster automatically for the next time you register!

The thing I really dislike about this is things happen really quickly. You could get into a car accident, get really sick, family member in hospital. 12 months is a long time so many things can happen in that time frame. Sure there are reasons far less extreme then that, but things happen.

*to add* Just thinking of some more examples and I remember that my writing teach gave everyone a "surprise 3 page essay" on Thursday due Monday and I had to back out of a skirmish that was that weekend. if the game was Saturday I would of been given a warning under your system.
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Postby Variable » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:47 pm

Punishing no-shows probably isn't the best way to solve the issue. I don't have a viable solution for the issue right now.

Ironically the last big game I had to cancel going to at the last minute, I had already pre-payed for.
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Postby Chachi » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:47 pm

I say go pre-pay. I have never had an issue with it, and am surprised that it doesn't happen more often. It is super easy to get a PayPal account and to add funds to it, it is secure, and allows for a variety of payment methods (EFT, credit/debit cards, etc.). Do you feel that attendance is down on events that you require a pre-pay for?

Frankly, I don't even expect more from an event if it is pre-pay or not. It is all the same to me. I assume the cost would be the same for me to sign up, whether it is a pre-pay system or not. Can I ask why you would want a bigger, better event if it was pre-pay versus pay at the field? Why does that make it different, other than how you pay? Just curious.
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Postby Variable » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:50 pm

Lets do a poll and figure out what percentage of folks have a paypal account, or have someone on their team/relative that they can use theirs.
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Postby Riddick » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:58 pm

so ironically this isn't some kind of ground breaking trend I asked for here. Others are doing more or so the same elsewhere.
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