ATF rescinds "firearm" ruleing for Airsoft?

[Jose]

Come on now, ATF, making a airsoft gun lower receivers in to RS, that guys doesn't even know how to put a mag on the rifle, they just try to find the way to tax you more for s***t that you own.

[Paladin101]

Snow, If I remember correctly from speaking with KWA reps at Shot last year the receiver is nearly 1:1 which is why they were releasing them at first only to Mil/LE. Obviously the KSC version isn't intended for the US so, but KWA has not released any info about bringing the GBBR in to the country except they have been working with the ATF on the possibility.

[Eyes On]

And I was more referring to third party tests, as I am sure a lot of people have tried this since the ruling.

Give it a shot. It's not actually difficult to do. I know for a fact it was done by both the ATF and a 3rd party here in Oregon (a licensed manufacturer for any ATF cockfags reading this). The circumstances behind the 3rd party test are nobodies business, but it -was- done. If you understand how the lower of an AR works and have the parts and some very simple tools, it can be done. That really IS all that needs to be said. If you want specifics, learn how a lower works.

[Mtgriz]

And I was more referring to third party tests, as I am sure a lot of people have tried this since the ruling.

Why in the hell would anyone try? Its cheaper to go buy a used AR than it is to buy a GBBR and the nessecary parts to convert it to fire one round, assuming you convert it correctly and don't shazaam the whole operation up.

This a stupid ruling by a stupid agency that can't get it's own foot out of it's mouth long enough to kick it's own a$$.

[LettuceHead]

Why in the hell would anyone try? Its cheaper to go buy a used AR than it is to buy a GBBR and the nessecary parts to convert it to fire one round, assuming you convert it correctly and don't f**k the whole operation up.

This a stupid ruling by a stupid agency that can't get it's own foot out of it's mouth long enough to kick it's own a$$.

Why anyone would try is not the point. Airsoft replicas are officially classified as Toys under the Harmonized Tariff Code when they are imported into the US. If something can reasonably and cheaply be made to work as a real firearm lower receiver component then it is classified as a Firearm, which come with a whole new set of restrictions, classifications and duties. Mind you, WE GBB M4s probably could have been imported into the US during this whole investigation albeit classed and taxed as a Firearm.

If a plastic GI Joe rifle could be mated to a receiver and fire a round under similar circumstances then the same ruling would apply.

For work I import about 15 tons (literally) of hard and soft goods for the paintball industry (some of it ends up in airsoft as well) so I have to deal with HTS codes a lot and on several occasions have had shipments impounded until I could prove what they were and what their intended use was. Usually it comes down to whichever US Customs agent was on the job that day... they are the ones who do initial inspections and hand them off to other agencies for further review. My shipment of lasers got stopped and spent 3 weeks in FDA purgatory until the proper documentation was processed. Yes, the Food and Drug Administration rules on laser sights...

The ATF protects us everyday by stopping illegal and dangerous weapons and munitions from getting into the wrong hands. Apparently all that work is null and void when they stop some toys from distribution though...

[Bulldog]

I'm certain the ATF will gladly make an exception to their public information classification just for you lilwil. You're going to have to live with the knowledge that they're not going to release what amounts to a "How To" video. There is a reason it's not public.

The ATF -DID- indeed convert a WE M4 GBBR to fire at least one round. They have released that much information. Whether you agree with their thinking on the matter is not really that important.

I know the Gen 1 lowers could be added to a real upper but, I thought I read somewhere that the sears could also drop into real lowers giving them a full auto capability, though I may of read that wrong. (Goes off to try and find it.....)

[Steve]

I'm certain the ATF will gladly make an exception to their public information classification just for you lilwil. You're going to have to live with the knowledge that they're not going to release what amounts to a "How To" video. There is a reason it's not public.

The ATF -DID- indeed convert a WE M4 GBBR to fire at least one round. They have released that much information. Whether you agree with their thinking on the matter is not really that important.

I know the Gen 1 lowers could be added to a real upper but, I thought I read somewhere that the sears could also drop into real lowers giving them a full auto capability, though I may of read that wrong. (Goes off to try and find it.....)

But the full-auto sears are already controlled. The concern is / was that someone who could not pass a background check could purchase one of these, buy the rest of the parts needed to convert it to a working AR without needing to go through a check, and have an unregistered rifle, unserialized rifle. With the bang-stick industry, the part that holds the sear is the weapon. The rest is stuff that goes onto the weapon. Incredibly dumb, but that's the way it is.

[wake.joe]

Shall not be infringed anyway.

[lilwil]

Why in the hell would anyone try? Its cheaper to go buy a used AR than it is to buy a GBBR and the nessecary parts to convert it to fire one round, assuming you convert it correctly and don't f**k the whole operation up.

This a stupid ruling by a stupid agency that can't get it's own foot out of it's mouth long enough to kick it's own a$$.

Why anyone would try is not the point. Airsoft replicas are officially classified as Toys under the Harmonized Tariff Code when they are imported into the US. If something can reasonably and cheaply be made to work as a real firearm lower receiver component then it is classified as a Firearm, which come with a whole new set of restrictions, classifications and duties. Mind you, WE GBB M4s probably could have been imported into the US during this whole investigation albeit classed and taxed as a Firearm.

Cheaply... it costs more to convert an airsoft gun then to just buy the gun. 50 bucks will buy you an ak out of oakdale california, 120 will get you an older model m16. How is 500 bucks for an airsoft gun, then all the time/parts to change it cheap?

If a plastic GI Joe rifle could be mated to a receiver and fire a round under similar circumstances then the same ruling would apply.

For work I import about 15 tons (literally) of hard and soft goods for the paintball industry (some of it ends up in airsoft as well) so I have to deal with HTS codes a lot and on several occasions have had shipments impounded until I could prove what they were and what their intended use was. Usually it comes down to whichever US Customs agent was on the job that day... they are the ones who do initial inspections and hand them off to other agencies for further review. My shipment of lasers got stopped and spent 3 weeks in FDA purgatory until the proper documentation was processed. Yes, the Food and Drug Administration rules on laser sights...

The ATF protects us everyday by stopping illegal and dangerous weapons and munitions from getting into the wrong hands. Apparently all that work is null and void when they stop some toys from distribution though...

[lilwil]

bug of some sort?

[Mtgriz]

Lettucehead, thanks. I knew all that.

I wish to make a point about the utter stupidty of attempting to regulate "weapons" based on the subjective points of "reasonably" and "cheaply". There are so many holes in that arguement just waiting to be exploited in court.

Also, don't you think that if those clowns at ATF were really---> "The ATF protects us everyday by stopping illegal and dangerous weapons and munitions from getting into the wrong hands." you'd hear about it a bit more? I would love to see undoctored statistics showing how many "deadly" weapons they really catch. I'm betting that their budget would shrink next fiscal year if Congress had those numbers...

[Steve]

Shall not be infringed anyway.

I agree. But, let's face it, if they really wanted to make a dent in gun-related crimes, they'd let you have whatever bullet flingers you wanted, but require a background check and waiting period for the bullets.

Someday, my gen-1 WE M-4 is going to be worth a fortune...

[Catch22]

We all know this whole "ban", was just a way for the ATF to conviscate a bunch of GBB M4's. So they could have them for training. Woot! to the government and their new airsoft Glocks and M4's.

[Eyes On]

When asked, I usually just say "Well, you know how it is. Customs and ATF agents have kids. They need Christmas presents too."

[Cap n pickles]

If they do start busting people as felons for airguns, they will make us sound like terrorists first. Need an airsofting public person. I would chip in for it.

Lilwil, you said you had no faith in Obama cuz he is Black. We do not want you, or anything you have to offer with you racial profiling.