legal??? suppressors

[Pope_Alex_Kaeda_I]

Something that some of you dont realize. As far as BATF is concerned, if it will reduce the sound of a weapon by even 1 decibel, it can be classified as a 'silencer' (if I recall correctly, thats the way the NFA/1934 classifies them). Now, something you may not know - most airsoft guns are tapped for 14/1 left hand thread. You know what else is tapped (usually) 14/1 left?

Thats right - the AK47. So lets say that Joachim VonNoober here owns an AK47. He's went and purchased a Classic Army 'Socom' suppressor, filled with foam. Dude's sporting it on his M4, thinking he's all special forces or something. He also possesses a real, semi-automatic AK47 clone.

What could the not-so-clever BATF agent say? "he had 'constructive intent'". And you kids think I'm playing around . . .

If you're smart, you'll contact a lawyer in your area and consult them for advice.

[Monolith Arms]

I know Im new, and this is my first post. Im not a "know it all". Or tying to tell anyone what to do, or be offensive in anyway.

I basically joined this forum for two reasons one (I love airsoft and looking for people to play) and two, Working with a Class II MFG and building real suppressors for real machineguns I have been through this before.

In my last phone call with the ATF tech branch, a few days ago, they are getting tired of the "overabundace of toy silencers" in the US. They said they are going to start going after violators.

The foam filled suppressors, are (according to them) firearm suppressors. The Main problem I have with this statement is the fact a "Firearm" in their definition is a device expelling a projectle by use of an explosive propellant. So they have created an oximoron in the law here.

Saying you cant have a "FIREARM" suppressor, and then trying to throw an airgun under the definition of a firearm, is absurd at best. Im trying to contact James Bardwell. He is an authorty on ATF law.

The moment you try to ADAPT an airsoft suppressor to a real firearm, it should make you in violation. Just like you can LEGALLY have a Drop-in fullauto AR sear, but if you are in possession of a AR-15, you are THEN in violation of NFA laws.

In the state of oregon you CAN have Machine Guns & Suppressors.

*You must find a Class 2 or 3 dealer.
*Pay a $200. tax, be finger printed, have photos taken.
*Wait three months.
*Have a Judge, or CLEO sign off on you. Saying they know you and can attest for your character.
*Pass a criminal backround check.

That is what the ATF wants you to do with your Airsoft Suppressor. As long as the tube is solid (i.e. Mad Bull Halo Export Version) you will be fine. If you like to have the foam and have it installed you are in violation of NFA laws and subject to 10 yrs imprisonment and a $25,000. fine.

The ATF askes that if you think you are in violation to send the device in for a classification. DONT DO IT! This is a trick they use! If you think your suppressor might be in violation. DESTROY IT! If you ARE in violation, and send it to them, then they will say "you are in possession of a non-regeistered NFA item" AND THEY WILL ARREST YOU!

I believe some BIG people in airsoft need to get together and talk to James Bardwell. Then go to the ATF for a re-classification of this law. Otherwise there will be thousands of violators. Here is a link to the ATF law on BB-gun suppressors.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m30

Sorry everyone, not trying to be "preachy" or long winded.

[Carpet]

Im no expert (or even noob status) on real steels but would any real bullet be able to travel down a 6.01mm barrel? If not, then a sillencer with a 6mm barrel WELDED (keyword), would be unable to be used on a real steel and therefor legal. Correct me if I read wrong. i beleive the issue they have is that people could potentially modify a suppressor originally intended for airsoft to be used on a real fire arm. Doing this would avoid the neccesary paperwork/fees required to own a firearm silencer.

[Rogue Reaper]

i have placed my Madbull Halo ( export version on my Real AR and fired it. It does not muffle in any way. This is not illegal because it is a silid tube. The non export version available overseas would fit right on and would in fact muffle, even if only 1 db.

I currently own ZERO foam filled or dissasembalable cans. I use Full auto tracers or Barrel extention style cans with solid tubes that cannot be modified to simmulate Suppresor cans.

If you disagree with Monolith arms you are just stupid, he and I sat and talked in the airport in Vegas while we waited for our flight crew that was late. Dude is straight up and actually builds the stuff.

[User19632]

!!!THIS IS ILLEGAL!!! Only used for informational purposes.
It is possible to shoot a .22 (NATO 5.56mm) round through an airsoft barrel of any diameter.

[incubus]

While I don't doubt what Monolith says at all, I would think that if you did get caught + had a good lawyer that you could get out of it since airsoft replicas aren't classified as firearms.

Here is the washington RCW (law) on what a 'firearm' is.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.010

Same thing as oregon.



I'm not finding anything on suppressors yet, but I know that you're allowed to own one, mount it on a firearm, but when you shoot it, that when you get in trouble.

I believe it's RCW 9.41.250

[REDNECK]

This is what I have found I was going to build a suppressor for my .22 but the plans were as far as I got.

http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm

[BigmanZ]

They went over this for paintball as well.

Monolith is right.

It doesn't matter if an Airsoft Rifle is a replica, what the ATF cares about and what matters by law is if the Silencer itself can be removed from an airsoft rifle and placed, by any means possible, onto a real firearm and deadens or silences the sound of the weapon in anyway...then it is illegal.

What most people don't realize is that even an empty silencer still changes the sound of a firearm shooting, it doesn't need foam or padding to do such. ATF's official stance is this. The ONLY way to be able to say the silencer is a toy is if it's plastic (will instantly melt/explode if the pressure of a bullet was applied). Even then it's iffy. Only way around the law is if you permently attach the silencer onto your airsoft rifle. Meaning you cannot remove it in anyway.

Oh and it doesn't matter if you don't own firearms. Just being in possession of a silencer is a felony.

[FoxyFoxsauce]

A real Silencer on a Airsoft gun would only change the tone. and slightly muffle it. However it would still be loud as ever because all the workings of the gun are in the rear and Grip. there is no explosion in the barrel to shoot sound out of the end.

I find this all Slightly asinine.

They need to make Silencers other then Plastic Silencers that can in no way be made or altered to fit on the end of a barrel of a real Firearm, Just as a airsoft gun can't be made into a Firearm. I don't know how they would do it though.

[BigmanZ]

Really, I can see if for gas airsoft rifles or pistols. Problem is if it can deaden the sound of an airsoft then it can deaden the sound of a firearm (mainly a 22).

Legally the only way I can see for a silencer to be allowed is just for cosmetic reasons. Effectively a solid barreled silencer that does nothing other then maybe extend out the barrel so you can fit a longer inner barrel on your gun.

[CommieHunter]

Disclaimer: Bigman and Monolith, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm pointing out that the ATF is a little vague on their definition.




I have an empty soda bottle. It'll muffle the report of a small pistol, if used correctly.

I have a soup can that has both the top and the bottom, but is empty.

I have a neighborhood cat.

All of these can muffle the report of a firearm. All of these fit the BATF definition of a firearm silencer.

My neighbor needs to be arrested because he has a cat. Little kids need to be cited and booked for collecting soda bottles to return.

Every mother should be arrested because she has soup cans in her pantry.

[midnight_commander]

Is the gearbox not the loudest part of the airsoft gun? So wouldn't a suppressor on an airsoft gun technically do very little even if it dose muffle what sound is coming out of the gun?

On a GBB the sound of the slide moving back and fourth is louder then the sound of the gas actually coming out of the barrel. So a suppressor on that would also do very little.

[BigmanZ]

Disclaimer: Bigman and Monolith, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm pointing out that the ATF is a little vague on their definition.




I have an empty soda bottle. It'll muffle the report of a small pistol, if used correctly.

I have a soup can that has both the top and the bottom, but is empty.

I have a neighborhood cat.

All of these can muffle the report of a firearm. All of these fit the BATF definition of a firearm silencer.

My neighbor needs to be arrested because he has a cat. Little kids need to be cited and booked for collecting soda bottles to return.

Every mother should be arrested because she has soup cans in her pantry.

I was just reminded that I necro'ed this post, which I apologize for...but I gotta reply to this.

Because something can muffle a weapon doesn't make it a silencer. I have mulitple pillows in my house, all can deaden my 30-06...but doesn't make them illegal to own because they are made and intended for sleeping on. If on the other hand I were to roll up a pillow and tie it onto the end of my rifle? I'm breaking the law and the gov would have no problem tossing me in prison. The same goes for all the items you list, the second you modify them with the intent of using them for illegal purposes...bam, your hosed.

The problem with an airsoft silencer is that it is made to silence a firearm replica, there for it is in a grey area for the ATF and they have made it clear in the past allready that they deam such illegal. They look like a real silencer and they are easily used as such...thats all the ATF cares about.

[CommieHunter]

Ok, so let me see if I understand correctly.


An item that looks innocent, but can silence a firearm is legal, until you use it to silence a firearm.

An item that looks like a silencer is illegal, even before you use it to selence a firearm.

[Raging Hormann]

My idea is this: Don't let any ATF guys airsoft with us.