legal??? suppressors

[midnight_commander]

My idea is this: Don't let any ATF guys airsoft with us.

+1

EDIT: No, That's too predictable...Lol...

[BigmanZ]

Hey man, when the ATF says jump? I jump. I don't ask why. I just jump until they tell me to stop.

A pillow isn't made to silence an item that shoots projectiles.
A coke bottle isn't made to silence an item that shoots projectiles.
A cat wasn't put on this planet to silence an item that shoots projectiles.

An Airsoft Silencer is made to silence an item that shoots projectiles.
A Real Silencer is made to silence an item that shoots projectiles.

In the eyes of the ATF, thats all that matters...and thats all I care about.
Will I get arrested? Highly not likely, unless it's on a real firearm.
Will I lose my silencer? Yes.
Could I also lose my airsoft rifle? Possibly.
Would a day of fun be instantly ruined? Yep.
Would it make for one hell of a negative news report for Airsoft in general? Oh yeah and you better believe the ATF would be sending that story out to every news source.

[CommieHunter]

Here's the thing I get caught on.

We're getting in trouble over 'Firearm Silencers'. This whole debate has been over whether an airsoft silencer can silence a 'Firearm', even 1db.

So a pillow is an item that is not made to silence a firearm. It can.
An airsoft silencer is an item that is not made to silence a firearm. It can.


The discussion has never been over 'shooting projectiles'. Airsoft guns are not illegal, and devices designed to silence airsoft guns are should not be illegal.

Bigman, I know you see this, and I think you know I understand, but I'm trying to put it in simple terms. ATF is jumping from definitions of 'Firearm Silencers' to appearances, and back to definitions. It's a convoluted way of seizing something that they really don't need to take, but they'd like to, 'cause they can fine you for it.

[Smith]

The fact is , whether we will get arrested for having a silencer or what not the NFA wont like it at all. I think we all know that the government plainly doesn't like airsoft and if we do much at all its likely that they'll shut us down if we are getting into all sorts of trouble, and we all love airsoft here so we dont want that to happen. Just use common sense when you do stuff, if you think cops wont like it then dont do it rather than having a nice little argument ready about soup cans and cats

[CommieHunter]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to keep these separate.


If a Firearm Silencer is a device designed to silence a firearm, then airsoft silencers do not apply.

If a Firearm Silencer is anything that can be used to silence a firearm, then airsoft silencers apply, as well as pillows.


I don't see where the middle ground is. How are they going to write the law to make these illegal without making everything else illegal too?

[Nocte]

My sister-in-law works for the ATF. Not in IT, not in some stupid HR position that handles the hiring of the janitorial staff. Christie works for the ATF under its designed purpose, cool badge and all. I asked her about this suppressor concern months ago.

Airsoft supressors are not illegal, since they cannot consistently suppress a gunshot from a real firearm. If they were illegal, you would see them seized in Customs and generally made unavailable to US citizens, aside from people breaking the law - which is where I come in.

This is coming from the source, so all you guys can simmer down.

Thank you.

[Talondog]

FoxyFoxsauce wrote:

I find this all Slightly asinine.

+1

I just have a hard time buying this whole airsoft illegal silencer business. But why stop with silencers? How about ATF going after AEG's because they can fire full-auto? Any of you have a Class III license for your AEG? And how about the shorty, compact AEG's (like CQB versions) that would be illegal as hell for civilians to possess in real steel?

You don't have to worry about a Class III license, or special authorization for your shorty AEG, because these are not real steel. They may fall under an interpretation of being a "firearm" depending on which government agency you talk to. But the bottom line is airsoft is not the real thing. Unless ATF gets a bug up their a** for some reason I don't see them going after the airsoft crowd for silencers or much else.

Heck, if any of you are worried about this - you can call a lawyer (which could cost you some money and you'd have to find one who knows what they are doing), or why not speak to an ATF agent directly? Just call ATF and ask to speak to an agent. They should be able to answer your questions. We're just trying to obey the law here, and they should be able to help with that if any of you feel the need to hear it from the horses mouth.

[BigmanZ]

Well here's the official ruling by the ATF for all to read.

http://www.atf.gov/alcohol/info/revrule ... 2005-4.pdf

Looks to me like the airsoft silencers fit perfectly into this catagory. Only thing that keeps them from siezing them at customs is that there hasn't been an official ruling on it. Give it time and Airsoft will be popular enough in the US for the ATF to do such.

[FishSlapRepublic]

If airsoft silencers are illegal then my local store is paying the cops off because they have paintball supressors on display and cops come in there all the time to buy anti-fog stuff I even asked one once and he said they are ok because they don't ever work for real firearms and that someone is better off using a pillow.

Edit: And bigmanz I don't think your quite getting it. Read what people are posting we have many people that have talked to several forms of law enforcement including the one you keep linking and they all say that airsoft silencers are all go. Because airsoft is not a firearm and the silencers can't actually work for real firearms. because if airsoft is a firearm it is illegal to do play like we have with or without silencers.
If you still want to play it safe thats fine they don't work that well for a lot of airsoft replicas anyway, but don't give anyone lip at a game because they have one.

[BigmanZ]

I really can't word it any better then the ATF's ruling. You are backing up your claims by what acouple LE Officers and an ATF Agent's opinions are. I have the official ruling as dictated by the ATF Director...said Agent's boss.

I don't know what else I can add to the fact that the ATF themselves proved that a toy silencer can and does silence a real firearm. I'm not trying to step on toes or tell you how to play your game, just trying to open people's eyes so they don't get in trouble. I honestly have no problem with you doing what ever you want to, but ignorence isn't a plausible defence when it comes to the law.

I've presented all the information I have to inform those who wish to be. Take it as you will, as I really don't have anything else I can add to this topic.

[KA-BAR]

SHUT UP.

who cares. i do not..... i have a tokyo marui MK23 with a faom filled suppressor, when those idiots from the ATF want to come with a tank, and dudes in full gear to get my "toys" i will laugh my a$$ off....

they cant even subdue a few branch davidians with out having a BBQ, i doubt they can pull thier heads out of thier asses long enuff to gather up and police the airsoft scene.


thread DEAD.

[Nocte]

I really can't word it any better then the ATF's ruling. You are backing up your claims by what acouple LE Officers and an ATF Agent's opinions are. I have the official ruling as dictated by the ATF Director...said Agent's boss.

I don't know what else I can add to the fact that the ATF themselves proved that a toy silencer can and does silence a real firearm. I'm not trying to step on toes or tell you how to play your game, just trying to open people's eyes so they don't get in trouble. I honestly have no problem with you doing what ever you want to, but ignorence isn't a plausible defence when it comes to the law.

I've presented all the information I have to inform those who wish to be. Take it as you will, as I really don't have anything else I can add to this topic.

Again, I go back to this:

If they were illegal, we would not be able to import them from other countries. We would not be able to sell them in the United States in retail stores. We would have heard about a ruling or SOMETHING in the 10+ years airsoft has been around.

The ATF is obviously not concerned with airsoft suppressors.

Thread done.