Restraints

[Imp]

Yeah this is a touchy subject restraint=injury but they will also increase the realism. If your going to use restraint i think before the game players must take a short class on how to properly use the restraint to try and prevent injury.

in my opinion restraints are a bad idea its just taking it to far. Were in this for fun to me theres a point when it goes from milsim to just being posers if u get what i mean. I do belive that milsim should be taken seriously but theres a fine line and i think pushups and restraints are crossing it.

[incubus]

I think rubber bands are a bad idea. While you can put them on in a similar fashion as cuffs + they could be broken easily + not injure actors easily, carrying them + taking them out of a pouch is not the same at all. You take out a set of handcuffs + they aren't likely to catch on everything else. When you take out a rubber band, they're all balled up w the others, then you have to shake them off... blah blah blah we all know how it is.


I think if you use cuffs, you cuff their fingers with normal cuffs. This way the actors are holding the cuffs, but you still go through the same actions you would if you were cuffing their wrists. Very realistic, but you won't actually bind them up. With zip ties, just take two zip ties, zip two circles together then place them in the actors hands. Same idea as the cuffs.

If you do it this way then its as realistic as actually restraining them, without actually doing it. Plus then you would also have to worry about carrying enough for all actors.

[O'Doyle]

It should entirely depend on the game that is being played. For a mil sim event with actors, whatever the promoters decide upon with the actors should be accepted. For skirmishes holding restraints in hand should suffice. However a one for one ratio should be used. You cannot restrain 5 people with the same zip tie. If you link two zip ties together and just have the person hold onto it that seems like a close approximation. Again this is in a skirmish. In an event with actors whatever is decided upon with the actors goes, the same should also be for FPS limits. Whatever the event promotes is what goes.

[BigmanZ]

Obviously no restraints should ever actually be used on actors or other airsoft participants.

Why not? I don't see what the big deal is. They restrain actors on movie sets all the time. What about liability insurance? If the event is adequately insured and actors sign liability waivers, why not restrain them? They've volunteered for this. Injuries can happen, but that's something you accept when you do a dangerous activity like attend an indoor tac-sim event.

It's a matter of safety. Just because somebody signs a liability waver, doesn't mean that you don't have to ensure their safety. It is still the responsibility of the event coordinators to ensure the safety of all individuals involved. A waiver does not release them of such responsibility.
Airsofters might be used to accepting simple injuries, but what about actors that don't play airsoft? Are just volunteering for fun? The event should be fun for both sides involved.

Handcuffs can break wrists if they are accidentally locked before attempting to ratchet them on somebody. Also both Handcuffs, zipties, and zipcuffs can be overtightened (It is really easy to do when adrenaline is going). This cuts off blood and can easily lead to the restrained person losing their hand because of blood flow problems. Add to this the fact that if the person trips and falls, they can't catch themselves. LE is trained in how to grab people so they don't fall and injure themselves (creating liability for the department) I doubt anybody at an airsoft event is even going to be paying attention for such much less ready for it. For this reason even rubberbands are a liability.

I think Mohr has the best post on this with the other forum. Have the detained person hold the cuffs with each hand. This clearly shows the person is restrained, either with arms infront or behind and keeps them 100% safe. This also requires the officer to carry the appropriate gear on his/her person to detain suspects. Anything that can't ensure 100% safety for a volunteer, should never be used in my mind.

[Aaron]

Just because somebody signs a liability waver, doesn't mean that you don't have to ensure their safety. It is still the responsibility of the event coordinators to ensure the safety of all individuals involved. A waiver does not release them of such responsibility.

I agree that actually restraining someone is unnecessary. I don't mind at all getting a little beat up playing airsoft, but I wouldn't want to have my hands tied behind my back for a game when I could just hold on to a zip tie and get the same effect. It does however seem silly to me that we even need to sign a wavier in the first place.


Everyone that puts on event's is doing so either to try to make some money, or to train/play. It seems to me that most people don't make money and are doing it just to get out and have a good time. The fact that people are soooo sue happy that event holders have to have a waiver to protect themselves is sad to me. Sure, if I go out to a building someone built to play in and it collapses on me, that's there fault. But 95% of the time people get hurt because they do something stupid, or just because stuff happens.


I'm just tried of people blaming others and not taking responsibility for making a mistake and getting hurt, or just accepting the simple fact that life happens.


And I'm not trying to single you out Bigmanz, you just happened to be the person who brought up waivers I think it should be told to volunteers exactly what they can expect to happen to them, getting shot by strays, etc etc. But if they still volunteer with that knowledge and get hurt, oh well.

[BigmanZ]

Well look at this way. You volunteer for an event and are informed all about airsoft. Might lose a tooth, bruises, welts, pellets can cause bleeding, might trip and sprain your ankle, at worst a broken bone....no problem, hell anything you do for sport is going to present these issues. So you agree, then somebody cuffs you and puts them on too tight. It's uncomfortable but after awhile doesn't bug you as much....until you realize it's because your hands went knumb from blood lose and everything is dark purple. They remove the cuffs and feeling doesn't return, you goto the doctor and they say that there is perminent nerve damage so you'll never be able to feel anything with your hands again? Your now dissabled because somebody else wanted to have fun and wasn't paying attention. Do you say 'Ah man that sucks, Oh well thats life sometimes" Or do you sue?

And no problem on the post, I don't feel singled out. I just know what can happen. Hell I got my wrist broken when being trained with cuffs because my partner in the class accidentally had his cuffs locked. I was the second one in the class to have it happen to, other guy got his broken because the girl cuffing him was holding the cuffs backwards when she went to slap the cuff around his wrist. Did I sue? No, but it still sucked...and probably would of pissed me off to no end if I was at an airsoft game when it happened.

Edit: And I just realized I necroed this post too. For some dang reason Mar looks like May to me.