Mandatory Face Protection for under 18? (NO!)

[Matt]

I still don't see what this has to do with AGE. Seriously. Can't any 20 something stoner living in mom's basement who has no job also get his tooth shot out? He can't afford to pay a $1500 dental bill, he doesn't have a job. Mom doesn't want to pay because she wants him OUT! He's MORE LIKELY to file a complaint and try to collect damages than a 15 year old who's covered by his parent's health insurance.

[KA-BAR]

that could happen matt, but the fact is, the 18-20 + year olds are RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES and THIER OWN SAFETY.

there is no guardian/parent involved in the decision.

if you are over 18 and dont know the inherent riskes involved in the hobbies you take up.... that is darwins thoery of evolution at work, and better they should not breed and die out.


that is the problem with the world, the stupid have been allowed to survive and breed.

[Matt]

I tend to agree with everyone who says we need to better educate the public about the risks. As some people have said, they never even knew that getting your tooth shot out was possible. People should at least known it's possible so that they can buy the necessary safety equipment if they choose to.

As for requirements, age limits, etc. That's entirely up to the insurance provided for a specific event or field. Like I already said, most require everyone to wear full masks regardless of age, so we're already breaking that rule.

Whether you like it or not, this industry is already targeting the kids. The top retailers in America make their money off teenagers. The top websites are crawling with teenagers too. The recent movement of buying up tons of trademark contracts and mass importing AEGs from China is part of that too. Those companies market to teenagers. It's easier for them to afford an AEG when the average price is $150 vs the $300 it used to be. They are selling toys that aren't really toys to kids who probably shouldn't have them and they know it. As long as there's money to be made they will keep doing it.

Unfortunately what they do with those AEGs tarnishes our hobby, even if we choose to ignore it we can still feel the negative effects of their actions and suffer the consequences. So this leaves you with no choice other than to shut them out COMPLETELY, or try to get them involved and teach them how to do it right. If they aren't playing at our events, they'll be off in some construction site in downtown Beaverton at 4 o clock in the morning dodging real bullets from the Police. The negative press that could generate could outright ban Airsoft guns entirely. Then nobody plays, whether they are 18+ or not.

[Chachi]

So Matt, I understand your point, and it is a scary thought, but unfortunately our hobby could be headed down a troublesome road. With that said, is there anything that we could do to be proactive about improving the image of our hobby? I was wondering if you called up a local newspaper before the next big OP and explained to them that there are 250 people from all backgrounds and ages gathering together to play this game, that they may come out and give some good press on it. Especially if you took the time to exlain to them that sometimes this hobby gets a bad name from a few idiots running around town with these guns out in the open. That most of the real enthusiasts are very responsible, trustworthy, honest and just normal, good people. Maybe having parents and other family members come out to an "open house" type of event to see who plays this with their loved ones would be a good idea?

I am just thinking that maybe sitting here letting the name and reputation of our hobby get destroyed, with us doing nothing proactively about it, isn't the best thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like there is something that can be done. I know a lot of the veterans of the hobby don't like any kind of exposure, but if we could get out in front of it, and do our best to make sure the exposure is good, then it could work to our favor. Just a thought......

[sounguru]

I tend to agree with everyone who says we need to better educate the public about the risks. As some people have said, they never even knew that getting your tooth shot out was possible. People should at least known it's possible so that they can buy the necessary safety equipment if they choose to.

As for requirements, age limits, etc. That's entirely up to the insurance provided for a specific event or field. Like I already said, most require everyone to wear full masks regardless of age, so we're already breaking that rule.

Whether you like it or not, this industry is already targeting the kids. The top retailers in America make their money off teenagers. The top websites are crawling with teenagers too. The recent movement of buying up tons of trademark contracts and mass importing AEGs from China is part of that too. Those companies market to teenagers. It's easier for them to afford an AEG when the average price is $150 vs the $300 it used to be. They are selling toys that aren't really toys to kids who probably shouldn't have them and they know it. As long as there's money to be made they will keep doing it.

Unfortunately what they do with those AEGs tarnishes our hobby, even if we choose to ignore it we can still feel the negative effects of their actions and suffer the consequences. So this leaves you with no choice other than to shut them out COMPLETELY, or try to get them involved and teach them how to do it right. If they aren't playing at our events, they'll be off in some construction site in downtown Beaverton at 4 o clock in the morning dodging real bullets from the Police. The negative press that could generate could outright ban Airsoft guns entirely. Then nobody plays, whether they are 18+ or not.

+1

So Matt, I understand your point, and it is a scary thought, but unfortunately our hobby could be headed down a troublesome road. With that said, is there anything that we could do to be proactive about improving the image of our hobby? I was wondering if you called up a local newspaper before the next big OP and explained to them that there are 250 people from all backgrounds and ages gathering together to play this game, that they may come out and give some good press on it. Especially if you took the time to exlain to them that sometimes this hobby gets a bad name from a few idiots running around town with these guns out in the open. That most of the real enthusiasts are very responsible, trustworthy, honest and just normal, good people. Maybe having parents and other family members come out to an "open house" type of event to see who plays this with their loved ones would be a good idea?

I am just thinking that maybe sitting here letting the name and reputation of our hobby get destroyed, with us doing nothing proactively about it, isn't the best thing. I don't know what the answer is, but it seems like there is something that can be done. I know a lot of the veterans of the hobby don't like any kind of exposure, but if we could get out in front of it, and do our best to make sure the exposure is good, then it could work to our favor. Just a thought......

Decent idea but make sure the younger kids are wearing full face protection when the news crew is there or that could backfire on ya...

[Matt]

I think media exposure can be good and bad. At some of the recent events I have been to, with some of the things going on, I wouldn't want a news crew to set foot on the field. We have a ways to go. At some of the charitable events that are run more professionally, it could be a good thing, but you still have to be careful who's covering it and how they quote you.

[~Thunder~]

Now that Ka-Bar pointed it out, I'm still scratching my head over the fact that you can't buy an aeg unless you're 18+, are probably required to shoot one only under adult supervision, and yet these kids are on the field with us weekly...

[Matt]

I don't believe there's a federal law against possessing an AEG if you are a minor, just purchasing one.

[Chachi]

I hear you both on the media coverage thing....that it can be good or bad. I am just thinking that I hate sitting and waiting for this really cool new hobby that I have, be torn apart by the bad press. I was just thinking that if press can get out that portrays us in a good light, that it really could go a long ways. Even something like Santa Wars, because it is for an incredibly great cause, Toys for Tots.

Maybe a memeber of our community has a connection with someone in the media that can talk to them prior to just showing up to an event and give them a little background. If the community itself is made aware to be on their best behavior (sad to have to do this) when the press is there, it could look really good.

Like I said, I am not one to just sit around and get beat up. I like to try and get things done before they become a serious issue I guess. I try to do my part by talking to friends and family, clients and coworkers about this hobby and let them know how great it is. I like to share that with people in hopes of it making a good impression on them. If there was something else I could do that would help the hobby's standing with the general public, I would do it. It seems like every month someone posts an article about some shazaam stick that used his springer to scare an old lady, and it just further downgrades our hobby. I just want to see one article or news clip about how cool this hobby is, and how great the people are that play it.

[Zeta Crossfire]

I think media exposure can be good and bad. At some of the recent events I have been to, with some of the things going on, I wouldn't want a news crew to set foot on the field. We have a ways to go. At some of the charitable events that are run more professionally, it could be a good thing, but you still have to be careful who's covering it and how they quote you.

Santa wars would be a good place to start since the entry fee is a toy the story could turn in our favor since where helping kids. Second awhile back when that whole ATF and AONW thing was going down KOIN6 did a story about it and it was (imo) really balanced and didn't feel one sided at all, including there follow up story. On phone atm so I can't link video, but when I get home I'll link the story. (fox 12 reported on this as well, but the video was one sided against airsoft)

Like what was said about, might want to try and get are now out there in a positive way before 1 story comes out tarnishes the hobby.

[Strikerz]

1. A lot more people will get pissed off if you put 18+ age limits on games than you think. And 2.they need to learn the hard way. This is more of a question for KA-BAR, if you want people to call hits and be honest, wouldnt it be eaiser to teach a younger person than it would to teach an 18yo who is already set in his ways?

[KA-BAR]

if you are a young youth and are looking for mentorship programs, go to the YMCA or boys and girls club of america.

[sounguru]

1. A lot more people will get pissed off if you put 18+ age limits on games than you think. And 2.they need to learn the hard way. This is more of a question for KA-BAR, if you want people to call hits and be honest, wouldnt it be eaiser to teach a younger person than it would to teach an 18yo who is already set in his ways?

I know you were addressing Ka-bar but this is an issue we as a team have already addressed in our area so I figured I would jump on the wagon.

Teaching younger kids to play is one of the things my team does and yes it it easier. We started allowing younger players on our team because we saw a few things that we felt needed to be addressed.

#1 Teaching them how to play honestly
#2 When and where it is okay to use your guns
#3 Safety
#4 Tactics
#5 How to have fun while being part of something larger than one person
#6 That this sport isn't full of a bunch of grumpy old farts that don't like kids

We absorbed a younger team because they showed a real desire to learn and wanted to have a safe and controlled environment to play in. The kids have taken to it like a fly to dead deer on the side of the road. Because of the positive attitude we put forth we are gaining members both young and old at a rapid rate. Our events are getting larger and are becoming a real draw in our area and we have almost no problems at our events. We have guys waiting in the wings to pass the qualifiers we have in place that are chomping at the bit to become official members because they find it refreshing that we don't limit people by age, but by their attitude and desire to play a sport they love.

Attitude will go further to making our sport more accepted than any other aspect.

Sadly there are people in any hobby that everything is the fault of anyone younger than them because of their advanced age, but I would put my younger kids up against an "older" team any day and they will play harder, smarter, and more honestly than most "older" teams.

Limiting any hobby by age unless it can kill you, is the quickest way to make sure that your hobby dies a slow painful death. It is almost like bleeding out and if you don't get a transfusion soon you will die. By the time most people reach the age of 18 they have already developed what types of hobbies they enjoy and if they haven't played airsoft by then chances are slim that they ever will.

But anyway back on topic ..... Face protection is what it was if I can remember right.

[KA-BAR]

hey thats great you have that program, but...

you are not the first to do this, the first team to ever have a mentorship program that allowed under age kids on the field with a organized team of adults was EATF. they were the first to have a CMP program that did just what you outlined.


one of the CMP's got busted shooting his replica near a freeway and is now banned from this community.....so yea.


your point is MOOT.



this is not the boys and girls club of America, it is not the YMCA....this is airsoftpacific.

[sounguru]

hey thats great you have that program, but...

you are not the first to do this, the first team to ever have a mentorship program that allowed under age kids on the field with a organized team of adults was EATF. they were the first to have a CMP program that did just what you outlined.


one of the CMP's got busted shooting his replica near a freeway and is now banned from this community.....so yea.


your point is MOOT.



this is not the boys and girls club of America, it is not the YMCA....this is airsoftpacific.

Damn have you ever had a happy day in your life....