Spotters (continued from Ghillieman 2011 thread)

[KA-BAR]

listen dude, you took a huge dump in my event thread. how do i know, i have been in your shoes many times in the past. the only difference is... i owned up to it, i owned it because it was mine and i created the drama.

if you cannot see that you are the catalyst for all of this, including this thread, then there is really nothing i can do to help you.

now if you want to retract your statements that have been so cleverly quoted, then hey, you are on the first step to responsibility for your words and posts. i learned this the hard way, and still i stumble along the way dropping a turd here and there in a thread i might visit. one place i have stopped shitting, is in other peoples event threads.

so if you want to compete, i would suggest a change of attitude, in post and within yourself, and maybe we can all get past this...

or you can just keep on keeping on, and we stay with the status quo.


as for your post script question...

why do you need a partner? you afraid to be alone?

[RBeran]

Grown men...shooting plastic BB's. It's...a...game...!

'Goose', if you had been as layed back as your last post, maybe we wouldn't have gotten all up in our kits. You may not have thought you crapped in the thread, but by our standards, you did. Please allow that different communities are, well, different.

It's clear to me you and 'Mule' have some knowledge. It is too bad all us "grown ups" (myself included) had to get so antagonistic in our communication. It's fine to disagree and have different opinions...it's the way they were stated that caused troubles.

You get further with a drop of honey than a gallon of vinegar. Delivery is everything.

[BoogeyMan]

Mule & Goose - hatchet buried, you guys seem to have a good thing going and sound like you're successful. I wish you happy hunting .... now, onto something else.


After doing some contemplation I have some thoughts.

I think the reason a lot of us are accustomed to running solo is because most of the events as of late haven't used the sniper role well at all. They limit the amount of 'bolts' allowed into the game, usually it's first come, first serve. Meaning the first 15yo that gets onto the forum and asks for the role gets to run his POS Supah 9.

I'd like to see more events where a sniper team is utilized. I think it's probably been more than 5 months since I put on my ghillie. I guess my point is - event planners/coordinators/promoters should give more consideration to the sniper role in the planning of their games. Sure there's a lot of people out there that like to run & gun and get their trigger off... and there's tons of opportunities for that. However there's a small elite group that like to play in the mud, wear leaves as a uniform, and have fun getting that 'perfect' kill. We're very fortunate here in the Pac NW to have airsoft fields where snipers can be used. Discuss . . .

[Osprey]

KA-BAR is my hero. I can't wait to do some counter sniping with this guy

I'm a sniper, and I have a spotter he's there to cover my a$$ when I'm stalking. We also take turns shooting to prevent eye fatigue. Its also kinda comforting to have someone there to talk to wile you wait. Trust me when you are alone you feel like a freakin hermit. Also a sniper is to remain silent. Back in Australia I reported in enemy movements through radio wile they were only 50 yards away, and I cant tell who how many times I saved some noobie from getting shot from 70 yards away. Being a sniper is hard work unlike a rifleman were your close enough to hit someone. I have to take in account of wind because BB.s to get caught in the wind. One time I miss because my calculation was off by one lousy inch. So I dont know who this message is going to, but being a sniper is hard work, and when you are about to get shot by the enemy and he calls a hit right before he shoots you. I just say ''your welcome, and now you are free to pass.''

To KA-BAR
You have my full respect plus my spotter's respect as a fellow sniper. What we do is an art that know one really understands, and we are the ghost of the battlefield

[Darius137]

There are no snipers in airsoft, only designated marksmen.

The range difference is negligible from 550 to 400 and tweaking a rifle won't get you to the point that you need a scope.

I agree with what Matt says from a CO perspective. At the last game I was at I had one guy with a bolt and he didn't have a radio.

Dan, your post indicates that you don't understand what an airsoft bolt action is about. It's not about increased range, or higher fps.

Airsoft bolt actions are about consistency. The are about putting a round into the same spot (or as close to it as possible) shot after shot. The scope is so you can make sure you are hitting exactly what you want to when you pull the trigger. Iron sights are very difficult to differentiate between a torso hit and an arm hit. Magnified optics are also beneficial in observing enemy behavior. I have many stories of being able to put a round through a tiny space and hitting my target. At LOWII, I shot 10 people through a hole in a wall (maybe 3" across) from 90+ feet. Those were all 1 shot hits. Very few AEG's can accomplish that, and the ones that can are heavily upgraded.

Maybe if you step back from your mob rush mentality, and spend some time with the people in this community who have earned the right to carry a bolt action, you can learn what/how to properly employ them.

You are right about me not understanding airsoft bolts. Or the need for optics. I haven't really used them in airsoft, so I have no clue as to the usefulness at these ranges.


But the role I see bolts in is one of a designated marksman, not a sniper.

A sniper is supposed to go out and get behind enemy lines, take out critical people, and then get back to friendly territory.

A sniper is supposed to work with recon elements and report back what they've seen and help the field commanders better direct troops where they're needed.

A sniper is supposed to be able to go to an area and deny access to it from enemy troops.

In airsoft, the fields are too small to do this (even Sniperzden), the range is too short, the fieldcraft is too lacking and not to say airsofters don't have fieldcraft worth a damn, but the shortened ranges and time of airsoft games means that an airsoft sniper has to crawl within 50 feet of someone and circle around entire squads in less than an hour to be useful in a game, whereas in real life they have days and can wait a lot longer for their perfect shot. Most real world snipers can't do this.

Also, airsoft snipers waste all this time on sneaking, only to get one shot off and maybe get a few hundred points or maybe kill someone for 15 minutes before a respawn, when their time could be better used as a DMR and taking out fortifications as a group moves up to secure sectors or push up the FEBA.

The stalk is one important part of being a sniper, but everything else about being a sniper you can't do with airsoft, so I just see a very sneaky DM.

[Cyph34r]

You are right about me not understanding airsoft bolts. Or the need for optics. I haven't really used them in airsoft, so I have no clue as to the usefulness at these ranges.


But the role I see bolts in is one of a designated marksman, not a sniper.

A sniper is supposed to go out and get behind enemy lines, take out critical people, and then get back to friendly territory.

A sniper is supposed to work with recon elements and report back what they've seen and help the field commanders better direct troops where they're needed.

A sniper is supposed to be able to go to an area and deny access to it from enemy troops.

In airsoft, the fields are too small to do this (even Sniperzden), the range is too short, the fieldcraft is too lacking and not to say airsofters don't have fieldcraft worth a damn, but the shortened ranges and time of airsoft games means that an airsoft sniper has to crawl within 50 feet of someone and circle around entire squads in less than an hour to be useful in a game, whereas in real life they have days and can wait a lot longer for their perfect shot. Most real world snipers can't do this.

Also, airsoft snipers waste all this time on sneaking, only to get one shot off and maybe get a few hundred points or maybe kill someone for 15 minutes before a respawn, when their time could be better used as a DMR and taking out fortifications as a group moves up to secure sectors or push up the FEBA.

The stalk is one important part of being a sniper, but everything else about being a sniper you can't do with airsoft, so I just see a very sneaky DM.

+1

I've only run a bolt a few times in airsoft, but the difference I've made by being on the front with all the rest of the riflemen is far greater than the difference when I've just been sneaky and gone after specific targets.

[Jester316]

Cypher, I have the same experience. I much prefer to be in the squad, picking people off while my teammates move in.

However, that being said, there are many people in this community who are skilled in stalking, observing, and shooting.

[Catch22]

.....A sniper is supposed to go out and get behind enemy lines, take out critical people, and then get back to friendly territory.

A sniper is supposed to work with recon elements and report back what they've seen and help the field commanders better direct troops where they're needed.

A sniper is supposed to be able to go to an area and deny access to it from enemy troops....

I've seen snipers do all of this. I've seen snipers kill off leadership repeatedly. I've seen snipers close off roads and trails from enemy movement. We've used them on hillsides to watch enemy movement. I still remember Raddue laying 10 feet from the enemy CO and relaying every command he gave, back to Gunny.

If used correctly, a sniper can have a large impact on airsoft games.

[Seagreen]

^Yep.

I always preferred to run in tandem due to the more secure nature of a buddy team, but there have only been a couple people I've been able to achieve mass-murder/scout-recon hivemind with.

In my experience, most people do not have the patience nor the stalking skills to really achieve anything more than being a guy with a hairy suit making a lot of noise.

It's fun to reduce targets, it's more fun to tell the commander what's really going on.....which I can recall being my primary tasking anytime I played in the "scout/sniper" role. It's to support a group of guys, without them knowing you are fully supporting them that makes me enjoy the game.

Morgan, I'm looking forward to this event. It should be fun. It'll be nice to get my suit out and play a little war.

[Mack]

There have been to a few games or skirms where a snipers owned a certain part of the field. One of the games we had at the Grove field Amos and another sniper (Flak?) shutdown half the field. The best times I've had running a bolt were at the CQC6 - LE Scenario and BSP's Sniper event. Both events were very different and challenging. Things didn't go according to plan but, I took from it and learned.

Props to Kabar for putting on this whole Ghillieman series. From the bolt build to the actual event. Wish I was still back there to go to this. Here in the Carolinas, they have an annual sniper/spotter tournament. There are no single sniper events. No spotter. No go.