Spotters (continued from Ghillieman 2011 thread)

[KA-BAR]

i dont think i have delt this person a unfair hand bro. most of the shooters in this area that are intrested are very jazzed and respectful of the event, and looking forward to getting their stalk and shoot on. i am very confident that the people involed will make this very worthwhile for all parties.

the admins get to shoot people! bonus! first time in airsoft history!


thanks for the tip matt.
tact was never my best tool in the box or the first one i grab, usually its a knobby club of hate. ill try harder.

[RBeran]

tact was never my best tool in the box or the first one i grab, usually its a knobby club of hate. ill try harder.

I still like you.

[BoogeyMan]

Meh, who cares. Most snipers are idiots anyway. This is exactly why I think all snipers are assholes, because they ALL act like this and the majority of them SUCK and get raped

Remind me to punch you in the taint next time I see you

kthxbai

[Darius137]

There are no snipers in airsoft, only designated marksmen.

The range difference is negligible from 550 to 400 and tweaking a rifle won't get you to the point that you need a scope.

I agree with what Matt says from a CO perspective. At the last game I was at I had one guy with a bolt and he didn't have a radio.

[Transition]

I got a knooby club of hate for you right here in my pants kabar

[Jester316]

There are no snipers in airsoft, only designated marksmen.

The range difference is negligible from 550 to 400 and tweaking a rifle won't get you to the point that you need a scope.

I agree with what Matt says from a CO perspective. At the last game I was at I had one guy with a bolt and he didn't have a radio.

Dan, your post indicates that you don't understand what an airsoft bolt action is about. It's not about increased range, or higher fps.

Airsoft bolt actions are about consistency. The are about putting a round into the same spot (or as close to it as possible) shot after shot. The scope is so you can make sure you are hitting exactly what you want to when you pull the trigger. Iron sights are very difficult to differentiate between a torso hit and an arm hit. Magnified optics are also beneficial in observing enemy behavior. I have many stories of being able to put a round through a tiny space and hitting my target. At LOWII, I shot 10 people through a hole in a wall (maybe 3" across) from 90+ feet. Those were all 1 shot hits. Very few AEG's can accomplish that, and the ones that can are heavily upgraded.

Maybe if you step back from your mob rush mentality, and spend some time with the people in this community who have earned the right to carry a bolt action, you can learn what/how to properly employ them.

[sovereignmule]

he walks within 20 yards of me and i opened fire with a short burst. he calls his hit and starts bitching about team kills, then they yell to him that there is a sniper team down there....LOL!

KA-BAR out.

how is using an AEG being a bolt turner? do you even own a sniper rifle? i heard that you did and it kicked a$$ but you sold it..... why? you cant even call yourself a sniper anymore. just because you use a ghillie suit doesn't make you a sniper. let me see... ghillie + automatic weapon + running in tandem with a sniper = SPOTTER. is that what you were doing? running as a spotter? i'm just sayin.....

as for my "real world" experience... i am not a conventionally trained sniper. no law enforcement training, no military training as a sniper either. i was in the military just not a sniper. my skill-set and field craft comes from sport shooting real rifles and playing this sport and paintball for a combined 20 years. i also read just about every manual or book on the subject i can get my hands on. i am not trying to brag i am just stating fact because someone asked.

i must point out that i didn't start this pissing contest of experience and who's better than who. KA-BAR did when he tried to challenge my knowledge and skills as an AIRSOFT sniper. if he really wanted to challenge me he should have done so on the field. after-all that is where the rubber meets the road right. where it all really matters... on the field! i would have still come and brought 4 or so people with me had he not been so pompous and arrogant.

also i never said i was going to do any shit talking to the boys down here i merely stated that i would advise against going to "ghillie man" because of my experience here. banning me from your events because of a minor disagreement in sniper tactics, KA-BAR, is pretty childish, and is all the more reason for me to advise them not to go, simply because of your actions. sorry but thats the way it is for me.... i would expect nothing less of anyone if i had done the same to them. its just unprofessional.

[ogrejager]

1. my skill-set and field craft comes from sport shooting real rifles and playing this sport and paintball for a combined 20 years.

2. i also read just about every manual or book on the subject i can get my hands on.

3. banning me from your events because of a minor disagreement in sniper tactics, KA-BAR, is pretty childish

First, don't let the 4 AM timestamp throw you--I just got back from "playing 911." I'm a volunteer firefighter and it's kind of hard to sleep after the call goes out.

1. You're 30, but have 20 years experience playing? So, I lived, and played paintball, in GP from '92 to '96--do we know each other? Where'd you play? Also, having 30 years of experience with sporting rifles, I realize that there's differences in what that means. Do you hunt? Target shoot? What? How often? Apparently, somewhere, this thread became about credentials, so if you wish to establish yours, you need to give us more info.

2. ...and we all realize that reading and doing are the same....

3. I agree. KA-BAR was a little over the top with the banning thing.

[KA-BAR]

he walks within 20 yards of me and i opened fire with a short burst. he calls his hit and starts bitching about team kills, then they yell to him that there is a sniper team down there....LOL!

KA-BAR out.

how is using an AEG being a bolt turner? do you even own a sniper rifle? i heard that you did and it kicked a$$ but you sold it..... why? you cant even call yourself a sniper anymore. just because you use a ghillie suit doesn't make you a sniper. let me see... ghillie + automatic weapon + running in tandem with a sniper = SPOTTER. is that what you were doing? running as a spotter? i'm just sayin.....

as for my "real world" experience... i am not a conventionally trained sniper. no law enforcement training, no military training as a sniper either. i was in the military just not a sniper. my skill-set and field craft comes from sport shooting real rifles and playing this sport and paintball for a combined 20 years. i also read just about every manual or book on the subject i can get my hands on. i am not trying to brag i am just stating fact because someone asked.

i must point out that i didn't start this pissing contest of experience and who's better than who. KA-BAR did when he tried to challenge my knowledge and skills as an AIRSOFT sniper. if he really wanted to challenge me he should have done so on the field. after-all that is where the rubber meets the road right. where it all really matters... on the field! i would have still come and brought 4 or so people with me had he not been so pompous and arrogant.

also i never said i was going to do any shit talking to the boys down here i merely stated that i would advise against going to "ghillie man" because of my experience here. banning me from your events because of a minor disagreement in sniper tactics, KA-BAR, is pretty childish, and is all the more reason for me to advise them not to go, simply because of your actions. sorry but thats the way it is for me.... i would expect nothing less of anyone if i had done the same to them. its just unprofessional.

i currently own"
echo 1 M28
A&K SVD
Well MBO3 ( known as the SCOUT RIFLE)

replicas i have owned

KJW M700
TSD SD700
TM G-SPEC
AGM L96
UTG M234

i have written more articles that contribute to the community of bolt turners, more reviews, and been seen at more games with a bolt action then any other platform.

you are talking strait out of your asshole.

everysingle one of these are bolt action rifles.

you know what you are right. i was running as a spotter, the only difference is, i dont go around acting like i am a necessary part of the "sniper team", and knew full well that the only reason i was there was to provide security.


and this kids is why these players like this dude should stay down south, this dude obviously knows nothing about this community, or about the KA-BAR.

and that makes me smile.

[RBeran]

Since I was partially responsible by asking for "credentials", allow me to clarify what I meant.

When I asked the question, I felt it was implied (as in this community it would be) I was talking about military or law enforcement experience. Books and articles, videos, talking to people...been there done that too. But in the context of my question, I have no credentials.

[sovereignmule]

and this kids is why these players like this dude should stay down south, this dude obviously knows nothing about this community, or about the KA-BAR.

did you just refer to yourself in the third person? i am no longer going to try to communicate with you ( KA-BAR ) because i can see that this is not going to get "resolved" on the internet. i feel as though you lack the open mindedness to debate sniper tactics with anyone who disagrees with you. this is the reason why i will not recommend your event to anyone, because you cannot keep things professional, and because if anyone presents an idea that goes against your doctrine you shut them down.

ogrejager if you want to know more about me in the paintball world please pm me and i would be glad to share this information with you.

as for my "credentials" i am a "real steel" and airsoft gunsmith. i hunt and target shoot as often as my budget allows me. it gets kind of expensive you know. i know i am not an expert by any means and i know that i have room for improvement in lots of areas. that is what makes me a better, more adaptive player. i am always looking for newer better ways to do it. any training i can get a chance to do makes me better. this thread all stemmed from a question about spotters at a sniper event, that is all.

train like you fight and fight like you train. we run a team and this is why i wanted my spotter there.

i am sorry that i cannot come up there and trade secrets of the craft with you guys. it is a shame that this discussion had to get personal. oh well maybe in the future we can all work something out. we have talked down here about having a field-craft workshop and i would love to have everyone down for a weekend of fun in the bush.

until then..........

[KA-BAR]

"words"

[BoogeyMan]

running in tandem with a sniper = SPOTTER

If both of them are running a bolt, then who is the spotter? Are you saying that it's the weapon is what distinguishes someone as a sniper or a spotter? I've run as a sniper with an M14 before...it's semi-auto... does that make me a spotter? I'm just trying to understand what your definition is - what does an airsoft spotter do? What loadout do they typically have? (I know it varies per mission)

it is a shame that this discussion had to get personal.

This is the one thing I agree with you about. I think a little more tact on the part of sovereigngoose maybe have prevented this hate storm. I have no problem on debating or discussing tactics/terms, but he really did cross the line initially. You guys come in as relative unknowns in this community - then he started attacking an event thread because it was geared towards the solo sniper. In a sense, kicking the bee hive. I'm sure you are well established in your community down south. In fact I'm looking for an opportunity to get down there and see what you guys are about. In the future - start a new thread for topics like this to discuss/debate. Not take a dump all over someone's event thread.

[KA-BAR]

running in tandem with a sniper = SPOTTER

If both of them are running a bolt, then who is the spotter? Are you saying that it's the weapon is what distinguishes someone as a sniper or a spotter? I've run as a sniper with an M14 before...it's semi-auto... does that make me a spotter? I'm just trying to understand what your definition is - what does an airsoft spotter do? What loadout do they typically have? (I know it varies per mission)

it is a shame that this discussion had to get personal.

This is the one thing I agree with you about. I think a little more tact on the part of sovereigngoose maybe have prevented this hate storm. I have no problem on debating or discussing tactics/terms, but he really did cross the line initially. You guys come in as relative unknowns in this community - then he started attacking an event thread because it was geared towards the solo sniper. In a sense, kicking the bee hive. I'm sure you are well established in your community down south. In fact I'm looking for an opportunity to get down there and see what you guys are about. In the future - start a new thread for topics like this to discuss/debate. Not take a dump all over someone's event thread.

+1 in a major way.

[SovereignGoose]

Wow, just wow. I really hoped it wasn't going to come to this. You want to blame me for this? Why don't you flip back a page and read my initial post. If you arrogant dig-its would read past the first few lines you would see that I was giving the event props. But no rather than realize that the comment was made in jest you jump to defend yourself through the sport that so many of you obviously justify your self-worth with.

Then Sheepdog, you state that airsoft is not a game where a spotter is needed yet contradict yourself in closing by stating the exact reasons for having a spotter: aka the benefits of an automatic, and more importantly the fact that it's fun to have someone with you rather than sitting in the woods by yourself, unless of course you can't find anyone that can tolerate you for the said amount of time which seems to be the case for most of these "lone" snipers.

If your argument is that spotters are useless because "There's no need for ballistic calculations for elevation, windage, humidity, temperature, and holds for moving targets" then I would respond that if you don't need those things, your not a sniper. This is a game not the real world, do not use real world tactics to justify your sorry excuse for what you call being a sniper. Like previously stated theres no such thing as a "true" sniper in airsoft. A real sniper shoots at least three times farther than your average gunmen, they typically never operate within 100 yards of their target, and lay still for days. Don't go siting the fact that SWAT snipers are alone. Show me a SWAT sniper that sits on the roof top 50 yards away in ghillie and then maybe it will have relevance to this GHILLIEMAN EVENT. Honestly the only legitimate thing that separates "snipers" from the rest of the field is the effort we put into concealment.

Bottom line: my first post I gave the event props and was upset that just because I'm not a bolt turner meant that, in the eyes of the event and sheepdog, I had nothing to contribute to the sniper community. I made three posts, dont even try to blame me for the fact that the rest of you decided to, as you so eloquently put it, "take a dump all over someone's event thread"

The community is small enough, If you cant see that my intent was obviously not to kick the bees' nest in my first post but rather ultimately say thank you for creating a Ghillie event, then I apologize. I would implore you K-BAR to reconsider your hasty action to ban mule. He and I have a combined knowledge for ghillie that most locals have labeled as "masterful" and I would hate to be deprived the opportunity to expand and share with other ghillie connoisseurs.

P.S. To all you lone snipers: if your bolt action rifles are soo superior why are you scared of an AEG at the event?