a good sniper for starter

[Minerva]

The increase in air friction is hardly noticeable as long as the BB stays the same and the Hop-up is tuned properly.

Increase in air friction?

BB stays the same? A second ago you were purporting that a 500 FPS gun automatically means you get 300 foot shots.. So you can do that on a .12? Interesting.

Go ahead and slap a Laylax 150 into your bolt and see if you get 300 feet.. Or for that matter if it doesn't break

[Osprey]

Air friction will only affect it if the BB does not have enough mass to pass through the air freely, or if it is a rough surface. If he is using heavy, high-quality BBs, then that is a negligible factor.

Oh so air friction is non applicable to you?

Cool.

I wish I lived on the moon...

Airsoft on the moon I wonder

[B.O.P. Hawk]

Increase in air friction?

BB stays the same? A second ago you were purporting that a 500 FPS gun automatically means you get 300 foot shots.. So you can do that on a .12? Interesting.

Go ahead and slap a Laylax 150 into your bolt and see if you get 300 feet.. Or for that matter if it doesn't break

As the BB moves faster, the thickness of the air is more noticeable. Thus the "increase in air friction."

Changing the BB to a .12 will change the density of the projectile and decrease the inertia, making it more likely to be affected by variations in the air. It will not likely get as far because it does not weigh enough to push through every little change in direction of moving air. A change in direction will cause it to lose inertia, which will cause it to fall to the ground after a lesser amount of time.

You have essentially lost the debate and have now resorted to mockery to try and hold on to your "position."

This is going nowhere toward the education of OP, LOCK please.

[Osprey]

Don't LOCK it please this is just to funny

[Minerva]

Lol wait.. Air gets thicker as the BB goes faster..? The density of air only changes with altitude and temperature.

You are misconstruing the importance of velocity.. And what keeps the BB in the air, and causes it to have a flatter, longer trajectory for that matter..

[B.O.P. Hawk]

As the BB moves faster, It is colliding with more air molecules in a certain amount of time, so it feels more resistance. I never said the density of the air changes, but the amount of air in a given area (that within the trajectory of the BB) is more NOTICEABLE due to the collisions with more particles.

You have these preconceived notions about how YOU think BBs should act when fired out of a barrel, which are based on what you have observed... You treat your findings like scientific data, but you fail to realize that more than one factor changes.

Back to what I originally said about this: If all other factors remain unaffected, velocity directly impacts range. There are many other factors that determine the range of an airsoft gun, and more than one is likely to change if you try to change only one. Data must be taken from a theoretical standpoint when you are discussing the physics of a body moving through the air; there is no way to gather data from pure scientific experimentation in this subject.

[Minerva]

There are many other factors that determine the range of an airsoft gun, and more than one is likely to change if you try to change only one. Data must be taken from a theoretical standpoint when you are discussing the physics of a body moving through the air; there is no way to gather data from pure scientific experimentation in this subject.

Bingo. I'm proud of you

Velocity has negligible impact on range if using the same weighted BB.

My theory behind this is what that excess air does on a lighter BB is create muzzle turbulence destabilizing the BB as it leaves the inner barrel.

[B.O.P. Hawk]

Velocity has negligible impact on range if using the same weighted BB.

That is incorrect. IF you are using the right weight BBs, then the higher velocity will provide more inertia to push the BB farther along toward the target in a given amount of time before touchdown. That is why a .22 magnum will never be able to out-range a .22 long rifle. Same bullet, different grain count.

My theory behind this is what that excess air does on a lighter BB is create muzzle turbulence destabilizing the BB as it leaves the inner barrel.

That would only cause variance in constancy. If I am understanding you correctly, then your theory is defunct because the excess air will be spread evenly over the back of the BB an will bloom in all directions evenly when the BB exits the barrel.

Could you perhaps try to rephrase your "theory" using proper English grammar and punctuation?

[Minerva]

Oh excuse me for missing a comma.

That is incorrect. IF you are using the right weight BBs, then the higher velocity will provide more inertia to push the BB farther along toward the target in a given amount of time before touchdown. That is why a .22 magnum will never be able to out-range a .22 long rifle. Same bullet, different grain count.

I believe you misunderstood my post. The synopsis of which, detailed that the weight of the BB is a greater factor then sheer velocity. You cannot simply state, that dropping in a more powerful spring will yield greater accuracy. It's just not true.

That would only cause variance in constancy. If I am understanding you correctly, then your theory is defunct because the excess air will be spread evenly over the back of the BB an will bloom in all directions evenly when the BB exits the barrel.

You are working off of the "air bubble" theory that has been proven to be over exaggerated. That would work in a perfect environment, with no changing variables, but napkin math goes only so far in the real world

That idea isn't anything new either. Perhaps you should look around on paintball technical forums and find out how poppet dwell effects the trajectory of the projectile.

[B.O.P. Hawk]

I believe you misunderstood my post. The synopsis of which, detailed that the weight of the BB is a greater factor then sheer velocity. You cannot simply state, that dropping in a more powerful spring will yield greater accuracy. It's just not true.

I never said that accuracy is increased with velocity, nor have I said that "dropping in a more powerful spring" is the only way to increase the FPS. The BB WILL travel farther if it is traveling faster, as long as all other factors remain the same; barrel bore, elevation, suspension time, and projectile weight cannot change in order for my statement to be indisputably true.

You are working off of the "air bubble" theory that has been proven to be over exaggerated. That would work in a perfect environment, with no changing variables, but napkin math goes only so far in the real world

That idea isn't anything new either. Perhaps you should look around on paintball technical forums and find out how poppet dwell effects the trajectory of the projectile.

If an airsoft gun is tuned properly or not low quality, then the air from the cylinder exits the nozzle through a circular hole who's edge is parallel to the inside of the barrel. According to the law of diffusion, the gasses will be spread evenly throughout the inside of the cylinder, not sinking to the bottom like a liquid in a gaseous medium. Since the nozzle is in the middle of the Cylinder head, air is pushed out evenly into the barrel.

As the air pushes the BB forward, it must flow around the hop-up bucking, which leaves a near vacuum in the space directly beyond the bucking. The air regains its diffused, equal pressure state in the time that it takes the BB and air to exit the barrel. Since the bucking is at the top of the barrel, the only variance provided by this occurrence will be vertical, and it will be the same every time as long as the BBs do not change.

Dwell pertains to the amount of air channeled into to barrel relative to the length of the closed section of the barrel. Since we do not use ported barrels, and our cylinders expel the same amount of air in every shot, the only similarity or application in this subject is when you use a ported cylinder in an AEG (or in a bolt, if you choose to be stupid). If the port is too far forward or too large, then the amount of air pushed into the barrel will not be enough to push the BB all the way out. The pressure behind the BB will reach 0 atm before the BB has completed its journey out of the barrel. The pressure will then go negative, causing the BB to slow down, or even stop inside the barrel, often resulting in extremely low fps. Dwell cannot be changed in a bolt and is therefore irrelevant.


I have a test for you to prove my point from earlier . Take an AEG that shoots at least 350fps and load it up with all the same BBs. Fire a few rounds with hop set all the way down and test out the range. Set the hop to optimal setting and fire a few more rounds. Observe how the range has increased.

Now, take the gun down to the gearbox and file down the front of the nozzle so that when it is forward, it does not touch the bucking. Reassemble and fire, with the hop still set at optimal setting. Air is escaping through the hop unit and traveling down into the magazine, so it is not all going behind the BB and it will be shooing at a lower fps. It will not have the range of either of the other two times you fired because it has a lower fps, and that is the only reason, as all other factors had remained unaffected.

Do not actually do this, as you would have to repair your gun like I did, but it proves my point that increasing fps will increase the distance that the BB travels.

[Minerva]

I could easily push the speed of my gun up to 550fps, then, I estimate, I would have a range of about 350 feet or more. That definitely out-ranges every AEG I have ever seen except one, and that was an $800 project.

This is the post that was in reference to.

Since the nozzle is in the middle of the Cylinder head, air is pushed out evenly into the barrel.

No. That applies to some things, but not others.

it must flow around the hop-up bucking

No air flows around the hop up bucking. It's simply the seal between the barrel and gearbox, or the nozzle in particular.

Since the bucking is at the top of the barrel

Again, no.

Dwell cannot be changed in a bolt and is therefore irrelevant.

Correct, but you keep switching out your argument between things that apply to AEG's to bolts. I figured I'd mention it as it was again, another variable in accuracy.

Take an AEG that shoots at least 350fps and load it up with all the same BBs. Fire a few rounds with hop set all the way down and test out the range. Set the hop to optimal setting and fire a few more rounds. Observe how the range has increased.

Yes. Because again, the backspin, sort of, applied to the BB is what is creating that longer distance. Another property of range that is not singularly velocity.

It will not have the range of either of the other two times you fired because it has a lower fps, and that is the only reason, as all other factors had remained unaffected.

Negative there. It is because you are inducing a leak, causing inconsistencies in you're platform.

This same principal of velocity being less important then hop or barrel quality, is the same reason a stock TM will ALWAYS out range a 400 FPS stock JG.

And this is all coming from the kid who insisted he could fit V2 parts into an CA25 shell

Joking aside it comes down to this; Velocity is not a range increasing factor by itself.

Do you agree with that?

[B.O.P. Hawk]

Since the nozzle is in the middle of the Cylinder head, air is pushed out evenly into the barrel.

No. That applies to some things, but not others.

Here, I am referring to a bolt action platform.

No air flows around the hop up bucking. It's simply the seal between the barrel and gearbox, or the nozzle in particular.

there is a small segment of bucking pushed down into the barrel by the nub. This is what stops the BB from sliding out, and I what I was referencing.

Since the bucking is at the top of the barrel

Again, no.

That part that sticks down...

Correct, but you keep switching out your argument between things that apply to AEG's to bolts. I figured I'd mention it as it was again, another variable in accuracy.

This is physics, and physics apply to everything. this part of an airsoft gun is the same in nearly every model, or at least the same idea.

It will not have the range of either of the other two times you fired because it has a lower fps, and that is the only reason, as all other factors had remained unaffected.

Negative there. It is because you are inducing a leak, causing inconsistencies in you're platform.

The leak causes lower fps, all other variance is negligible.

And this is all coming from the kid who insisted he could fit V2 parts into an CA25 shell

I could send you some pictures of the parts working...

Joking aside it comes down to this; Velocity is not a range increasing factor by itself.

Do you agree with that?

Yes, but that is only true if other factors are affected. If you only change velocity, then range is also affected.