Recommendations for a pistol

[Sniper02]

Hey everyone,
I have been thinking about getting a c02/green gas pistol for a while. I really like to be a sniper so I was looking into hi-cappa. Also as a alternative a small rifle would probably work, like a AR pistol or something along those lines. Do you have any good suggestions? Thanks and hope you all have a great week.

[AtlasEvergreen]

My guys and I all run the ASG CZ P-09. It takes either CO2 or green gas, depending which magazines you get. We all really like it, it's popular for a reason. It makes up for about half of the pistols my local shop sells.

[Sniper02]

I am thinking if I go with a small AEG then I might go with the Valken ASL Kilo45. Anyone have any other suggestions for smgs? Here is the link to the Kilo45.
https://www.airsoftatlanta.com/collecti ... -black-aeg

Thanks for your suggestion Atlas.

[Rentax]

The Snipers I have talked to go with either a MK23 pistol, or a Mark-I.
These are two guns are both very quiet out of the box, which is why snipers seem to like them. Both shoot decent and with a little money, both can be upgraded to be quite amazing sidearms.
When talking about SMG's, for snipers, I have seen guys run the gambit from MP9, MP7, MP5, very small M4's, a few shotguns, and a few M4's.

In my opinion, the reality is, if you are running a sniper riffle, and you need a backup weapon, one of two things have gone wrong, Either you aren't great at being sneaky yet and need to hone those skills or they got lucky and walked up on you while you were making a good stalk.
So lets take a look at some tactics / choices;
Option one: An SMG is gong to alert more people to your presence, with the sound of the gun, the rate of fire, and the dead guys yelling hit, it's all going to make it more difficult to stay concealed or get re-concealed before more guys come looking to see what has happened. So although going loud is an option, you're probably going to end up getting hunted and dying on the run. Not a great option in my opinion.
Option two: You are on a good stalk, and you get walked up on, and they find you. You can try to kill with quiet accuracy and then disappear into the bush, displace knowing they are going to come looking for you with their friends, but you will make sure they won't find you the next time. Then when things settle down, resume you original hunt.
Option three: You are on a good stalk, and you get walked up on, you stay on target, stay concealed, and stay quiet, let them pass, and continue your hunt.

Here's another way of looking at it when purchasing a secondary as a sniper there are a few things to consider about the gun.
Overall Weapon size, the bigger the secondary weapon, the longer it's going to take you to get that weapon on target. If it's an M4, you will most likely have it strapped to your back, you will need a considerable amount of time to get that weapon off your back and onto you're shoulder ready to shoot. If it's a pistol, it will come to a firing position faster, but where and how do you carry it without it taking a beating while you are crawling around in the bush.
Magazine size, you are probably going to want more than one magazine for you're weapon, especially if it whole purpose is a S.H.T.F. weapon, so magazine size and shape need to be a consideration, if you are carrying an extra mag or two on your body as you move through the bush, the smaller the better so it doesn't snag on stuff or get in your way when you are lying prone trying to use your primary.
Lastly how am I going to carry this? I see a lot of new guy stuff it in a backpack, tote it around about 1/10th of the day before realizing they will never have the time to take the bag off their back, take the weapon out of their bag, and get the weapon ready to fire, before getting taken out by the enemy and carrying it around all day like this is fruitless so they drop it at spawn... Like I suggested an M4 will most likely be strapped to your back it can still be cumbersome, but accessible. Shotguns, have scabbards, again accessible, but cumbersome to draw, Most SMG's are too big to fit in a holster, and if you find a holster that fit's it, it's still going to be floppy on your equipment. And like a touched on before Pistols are great in size, but can be difficult to find a safe place for them to live while you move around.

Finally just a note about snipers in general. Realize that Snipers in Airsoft as in the real world are tools to be used for a specific purpose. Many events will not have commanders who are assigning specific targets to specific units or roles. These events are your chance to practice your field craft, figure out how to move quietly, how to get behind enemy lines, how to stay concealed, and how to properly choose "targets of opportunity", how to be an effective sniper and an effective member for your team. This way when you get to an event where there is a commander who needs a sniper to take out a specific target or hold over watch on a specific AO, You are ready to move into position without being seen even if that position is behind enemy lines, you are ready to take out targets of opportunity, or stay on target and eliminate a specific target, you are there to hunt, and you are ready to disappear back into the bush once you have completed your mission, radio it in and are already in a good position for another tasking.

Alright back to the guns... Links

The Mark - I
https://www.evike.com/products/24078/

The MK23
Several brands make a version of this gun, TM / STTI / Y&P / ASG as well as a few others.
You are looking for the non-blow back or NBB version on the MK23 (that's why it's so quiet) The different brands have their ups and downs, and I'll let you do your own research because it's all based on price point, and availability.

That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it, hope it helps.

[Sniper02]

Thanks Rentax for your suggestions. The reason I was thinking about getting a smg was because I have found myself clearing buildings in the past and have wished for something better then a pistol. For me personally I am more of a urban/front line sniper. In other words I don't prefer to sit in one place for a long time hoping that someone might pass. That may change as I get better at longer distance shooting though. Just wondering, is Milsim West ok with snipers using smg's? They say pistol in the rules. What do you think about the SSX23? It is quite and has a high mag cap which is what I am kind of looking for. I will look more into the MK 1 & 23 pistols. I am also open to other suggestions for good pistols for snipers. My budget isn't that large though. Thanks for the help everyone.

[Rentax]

Hey 02,
First and foremost, Thanks for responding. I want to start off by saying, I don't want you to feel like I'm picking on you here because that is not my intention. I an simply trying to offer up some information, in hopes that it might help clarify some things and pave the road for things you might encounter in the future.

The general role of a military sniper is to take long shots from a place of concealment. In addition to long-range marksmanship, military snipers are trained in a variety of special operation techniques such as (but not limited to) target detection, stalking, field craft, infiltration, surveillance and target acquisition. A snipers role on the airsoft field is pretty rarely one of sitting in one place waiting for the enemy to role through because were not out there for days on end, our enemy doesn't usually do "routine patrols" and we don't have months of surveillance to scrutinize for good intel. An airsoft sniper needs to know how to stalk, infiltrate, and use field craft to their advantage to complete their mission in an appropriate amount of time. In general when we use the word "sniper" the above is loosely what people are going to understand that word to mean.

A designated marksman (DM) role, is a marksman role within an infantry squad. The DM provides his squad with accurate fire on enemy targets at longer distances. Due to the need for repeated effective fire, the DM is usually equipped with a scoped semi-automatic rifle called a designated marksman rifle (DMR). Like snipers, DMs are trained in scouting and precise shooting, but unlike snipers, they operate as an integral part of an infantry fire team. Designated Marksman are your front line marksman roles in both the real world and in airsoft.

For the sake of this discussion lets also define the term Sub-Machine Gun or SMG. An SMG is a weapon capable of full auto fire, but is firing a standard pistol round. The Sub- means "less power than a standard machine gun." So how does this translate when we are all firing a 6mm BB with standard FPS rule? It really doesn't mean anything except the shape of the weapons magazines.

Finally a note on Milsim

Them: What are you doing this weekend?
Me: I'm going to play airsoft.
Them: Airsoft? What's that?
Me: Airsoft is a military simulation sport.

Back in the day Airsoft, at it's core, was Milsim, but over the years the game has taken on many other forms, and the term Milsim has been adapted to mean a very specific type of airsoft. Milsim is squad based combat. You are expected to stay with your unit and complete the mission that is handed down to you by your commanding officers. The rule sets are usually more strict, they also often add uniform/kit/ammo restriction, and lean heavily on Military style planning and tactics. Milisim West's states they offer, "Full immersion military style game play" This means you are out in the field for multiple days, rucking, sleeping, eating, on watch, on patrol, or other wise engaged in a fight. It is an experience I won't soon forget.

Now onto your post...

An SMG can be great for doing CQC (Close Quarters Combat), but lets talk about that SMG thing, because all SMG's aren't created equal... As a "transition gun" for room clearing what you are truly looking for is a compact weapon, short in stature and quickly maneuverable. A 10" barrel, with an M4 body and a standard collapsible butt stock, with a magazine that looks like it's chambered for a 9mm, is just an M4. While people do room clearing with M4's all the time, it's their primary weapon, its not a "transition weapon" which to me is where the distinction lies. Most people don't carry two primary weapons, it's cumbersome, and in the end, is more of a hindrance, than a help. there is no one man army, and if you try and do too many jobs, you probably wont achieve as much as if you do one job great.

Milsim west sniper rule set reads as such

Snipers may carry a secondary weapon with them in order to engage targets closer than 100’. The secondary may only be a pistol. It CANNOT be a full sized AEG, LMG/MMG, Grenadier, or Heavy Weapon class type weapon. The spotter may carry an approved full sized AEG/GBB that is a rifle. No LMGs, MMGs, or grenadier replicas.

That pretty clearly states the secondary can only be a pistol, so if you are looking to get into heavy milsim, and larger milsim style games, I'd suggest getting a pistol and starting to learn how to room clear with only a pistol. Which is do able with a few modifications to standard CQC room clearing techniques.

I haven't actually seen the SSX23. From what I have heard it's a pretty faithful clone of the TM with an update to the hop up unit, and a Metal slide which seems nice. (just an FYI you replace most of the hop up parts when upgrading the Mk23 anyway)
I'd check cost on the SSX23 + whatever accessories you might want to use, VS the TM and what all you get in their package, to really see which is cheaper. I'm personally a TM MK23 fan boy, but they can be a bit more expensive and so I can understand going the other way because of money.

Hope this helps.

[Sniper02]

Thanks Rentax for all the helpful advice. I have for about 5 years played airsoft with friends but have now wanted to start really getting into it. I will make up a price list of the TM MK23 and the SSX23 and post it here as I think it could be helpful to other players. Thanks again Rentax and hope to see you on the field sometime.

P.S. Don't worry about me feeling like your picking on me. I will take any info you guys can give me on how to be a better airsofter.

[Sniper02]

Okay, here is the comparison between the TM MK23 and the Nov SSX23. Not just in prices. I tried to do the best I could in the comparison. If I missed something feel free to tell me and I will look into it. Hope this helps others out there.

TM MK23
Specs:
Power source = Green gas
FPS = 300 – 320
Magazine cap. = 28 + 1
Weight = about 42 ounces
Length = 9.5"
Fixed hop up.
Plastic slide
Plastic lower frame
What comes in the box:
TM MK23
Silencer
LAM unit/module
Green gas mag
Hard case for gun
Total price: gun + shipping to Hillsboro OR = $150.29 + $66.88 = $217.17 (Probably not the best price but it does come over seas as it is hard to find people selling them in the US)


Nov SSX23
Specs:
Power source = Green gas & C02(currently in the process of being made)
FPS = 300 – 330
Magazine cap. = 24 + 1
Weight = about 30 ounces
Length = I couldn't find the length of the whole gun but the barrel length is 1.7"
Adjustable hop up.
Metal slide
Couldn't figure out what the lower frame is made of.
What comes in the box:
SSX23
Green gas mag
Allen wrench to adjust hop up.
Hard case
Total price: gun + silencer + shipping to Hillsboro OR = $135 + $35 + $9.50 = $179.50

[Rentax]

There you go, sounds like the SSX23 would be a better option, I looked into their suppressor after we were talking, and it's has a function to be able to adjust the length of the suppressor, that's a is pretty nifty option, and would be nice if you play both indoor and outdoor, (shorten it for indor's because the MK23 is pretty big gun before the suppressor goes on it)
The SSX also comes with a TDC pre-installed, their mag price is pretty good, and a difference of 4 BB's in negligible.