California Senate Bill 798, what can we do?

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Postby KA-BAR » Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 pm

Haloeclipse wrote: The difference between you and I, is that I would rather be a mentor.




that is a pretty distinct difference. because the way i see it, its not my responsibility to raise someone elses kids. you want that responsibility, have at it.


you and i have always gotten along, lets not taint it with petty insults.

as for the wassabi incident, you were not there, the parent was a regular and after i held up a ball of wassabi he laughed hard... as i whispered " i gotcha" because it was a running joke between the bar and the customer that there was wassabi in the green tea ice cream. so since you and others not involved might not see all of the social dynamics going on, you can base your judgements on my perspective, one side of the story....so to act like you know the truth is fool hardy at best friend.


as for my verbal rants, i am fine with how i portay my feelings, there is no sugar coating on it, its just the knobby club of truth.... i know sometimes its hard to deal with when it gets ugly. that is just how i talk. if ya cant deal with it dont talk to me....because i use the same language in person and on the forums. any one who knows me, know this.


sorry your not as active as you would like to be, but since you are not, you have no idea the current state of things and how they have degraded. so really if you were around a lil more maybe you would see it how it really is and have a different opinion.



as for the current issue, you cannot deny anything of what i have said thus far, and why is that, because it is all based of personal expereince both as a player and a admin. i have not see this community elevate its sportsmanship or honor in the past 4 years.

players like realtree kid are still allowed to play as long as they pay the entry fee. i have seen this hacking kid at no less then three of riddicks games , even after he was busted for hacking at SEVERAL events. this isnt a one time offender, but a habbitual offender. guess what, he is still in the community.

this community has not enforced on BAN or blacklist for safety violations or unsportsmanlike conduct.

at more and more games i am seeing real steel at games....really have we gotten soo loose on our rules that CCW carriers can just break one of the cardnial rules of airsoft... real steel and airsoft dont mix.


so when i say that this community is on a down turn, and had gotten so loose that no one enforces any of the the statutes and most fundimental rules....then my rants look like small potatoes compared to bullshit like that.


so who is policeing up this community and making it right?

the site owner? nope
the promoters? nope
the players? nope



who is left.




uncle sam. regulations and restrictions....because you couldnt tighten up the ship.

so you can point the fingers at the troll KA-BAR all you want....but the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room is still hiding in the shadows waiting to rip your hobby to shreds.



dont blame me for it. i am just rubbing your nose in it.
is PRO SB 798 ~ because you cant police up your communities, big brother uncle sam has no problem doing it for you.
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Postby Wisenheimer » Tue May 24, 2011 5:54 pm

Read the last part of this ad...
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/for/2400905576.html

This attitude is what must be changed. How do we do that? How do we change the crappy attitude that this is guy epitomizes with his statement?

Everyone should swamp this guy with "educational" email.
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Postby Shadowsta13 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:48 pm

Read the last part of this ad...
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/for/2400905576.html

This attitude is what must be changed. How do we do that? How do we change the crappy attitude that this is guy epitomizes with his statement?

Everyone should swamp this guy with "educational" email.

I agree with that. This individual seems to only have basic knowledge of what airsoft guns are and already is promoting idiotic behavior. A major problem with airsoft guns and minors are many don't use them safely and legally and then when you have idiots like this the problem gets worse.
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Postby Ranger Commie » Wed May 25, 2011 4:00 pm

If you get an airsoft gun. Clear or not I think you need ANTI-DUMB-ASS training.
Two things are infinite, The Universe and Human stupidity, And I'm not sure about the Universe.
-Albert Einstein
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Postby code789 » Wed May 25, 2011 5:18 pm

1st part:
http://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/2355
skip to 1h48m

2nd part:
http://www.calchannel.com/channel/viewvideo/2356

got this from Rene L. Galicia - CA's 56th Assembly District, Republican Central Committee
de leon's debate with the apposing group to the assembly
Sic vis pacem, para bellum
long live the republic
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Postby Haloeclipse » Wed May 25, 2011 5:49 pm

KA-BAR wrote:
Haloeclipse wrote: The difference between you and I, is that I would rather be a mentor.


Lots of words abbreviated to keep this from becoming more of a word wall.


It is a very distinct difference. And also highlights our priorities on the game. You have no obligation to mentor others, I feel I do, not much to argue over, I think that my approach is more beneficial in the long run. But int he end one cannot control stupid kids or adults regardless of mentoring, and if idiocracy is even remotely right, were all f'd in the a. The trick is to help the ones that will positively respond, and until a fool proof way is established, that essentially means mentor everyone we can.

As far as the wasabi and verbal rants, my point is simply the appearance. When someone comes on the board without knowing the context it isn't the most positive of things to be advertised. This goes along with verbal rants, not just yours, many of us are quite guilty, myself included. But all our asshole behavior does however set a precedence for new players. Not sugar coating things is a rare trait and definitely has its place, too often people water down something that needs to be blunt. But theres a happy medium to be reached there. But again, Can't help stupid. Stupid kids and adults will remain no matter how stellar our conduct.

While my attendance is sadly low, I still play when I can even if it is in smaller venues. I know the problem exists and will not deny it, but again i think this goes into how we view our priorities in the game as well as what we feel out obligations, if any, are to the community. I will also not argue that the community is on a down turn, but I will disagree as to the cause. There have been many a time where Ive been put off by the abusive, child like conduct towards new players or simple dismissal due to age. We are not young players parents, and we did not choose to be their mentor, but our actions still have the same affect. The more open we are to underage players and the more responsibility and accountability we put in them, the more we can expect from them. We can't expect anything from anyone, minor or adult unless a baseline expectation is set down, and while the rules and expectations can be put here on the site or announced at games, actions still speak louder than words. If we take the time to mentor one dude, how much more likely is he to take on accountability of the game himself, and then do the same for another player later on? While it is easy to step back and wash our hands of it, and you are very much entitled to do so, it does nothing to solve the problem.

And you are right, if no one steps forward people need to get used to the idea of the gubment stepping in and doing it for them. Again however, deciding to simply not mentor is exactly what is going on. No accountability beyond ones own actions on field. If we want the game to not be molested by stupid government oversight we have to make a clear and concerted effort at the individual level to improve the current situation. In the end, we all should ask what we've done lately to improve the community and game. This is asking a lot but I am pretty sure this type of attitude adjustment could have a pretty positive effect on our community.
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Postby KA-BAR » Wed May 25, 2011 9:23 pm

thanks thoma... i appreciate that we can meet in the middle.
is PRO SB 798 ~ because you cant police up your communities, big brother uncle sam has no problem doing it for you.
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Postby Haloeclipse » Wed May 25, 2011 10:15 pm

Nothin but erotic love for you :)
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Postby Paladin101 » Wed May 25, 2011 10:54 pm

wow same guy wants you to submit, name, address, thumb print, whenever you buy handgun ammo in Cali. Great, so now there is a record of what kinds of ammo people buy and where that ammo lives, more than likely with a matching gun, in the hands of Walmart employees. GREAT PLAN!
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Postby KA-BAR » Thu May 26, 2011 9:43 am

wow. this is one cool video, and one cool kid.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CptiahM21OM&feature=player_embedded#at=209[/youtube]



this is the attitude that is needed for airsoft....for some parents to take some responsibility. when this kid talks of his fondest childhood memories ( he's still a kid... i know) it great to hear he had parents that were involved. not some strange creepy airsoft dude, or adult that he met online or at a game.


kids that dont have this relationship with thier parents. i feel sorry for them. a whole generation.....lost.


my first knife was a issue KA-BAR, handed to me by my grandfather at the age of 9 years old. i still have all my fingers. why? because he supervised and was involved.

the first time i shot a gun....my mom taught me. she took me to my first hunters safety course. and embarrassed a few of the other dads, one for having his unattended rifle muzzle pointing into the campsite. i love my mom. she makes sara palin look like a chump bitch when it comes to hunting and firearms.

i had parents that were involved....why dont you?<--generalization for the reading impaired!

maybe its not just the parents fault either....have you kids ever once asked your dad to spend the day with you and have fun....bet you havent. sucks to be the dad of that kid i bet. shameful.
is PRO SB 798 ~ because you cant police up your communities, big brother uncle sam has no problem doing it for you.
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Postby Steve » Thu May 26, 2011 11:09 am

I've been following the conversation, but needed some time to put together my thoughts on this.

I disagree with the bill. I think painting projectile-launching devices in bright colors trivializes them. I believe that more parents are likely to purchase them for minors if they appear to be nerf guns.

See, people are inherently lazy. In general, we make assumptions based on previous experiences rather than spend a lot of time researching every new product that we see. When a product is painted up to match the expectations of a toy, it is more likely to be seen as a toy.

I'd actually rather see stricter legislation. I'd like to see them treated more as firearms and less as toys. I'd support legislation to require background checks. I'd support legislation that punishes parents for putting them into the hands of a minor without providing direct supervision. I'd support legislation that prevents the hosting of games at uninsured properties.

Airsoft guns are dangerous. As semi-intelligent afficionados of the hobby, we take steps to minimize risks, such as wearing eye protection and balaclavas. But there are plenty of youtube videos that provide supporting evidence to show that uninformed kids do stupid shit with toy guns. I would rather see a short-term decrease in the size of the community in order to see it grow stronger in the long run.

I mean, barring airsoft being banned altogether, it's not going to decrease in popularity in the long run. The replicas we have now are pretty close to 1:1 replicas of weapons that are prohibitively expensive to purchase. If anything, keeping them accurate and restricting their purchase to adults is only going to make the kids want them more, not less.

Paintball went through a similar shift years ago. They chose to go with the parent-friendlym bright colors, cartoonish equipment, and inflatable bunkers in order to appeal to a mainstream player base. Airsoft is sort of a reactionary backlash. Airsoft is the more accurate, more "mil-sim" response to the mainstream paintball. Rather than trying to attract a mainstream following, we should be more interested in attracting responsible players with integrity.

So, basically, I simply cannot support airsoft replicas in the hands of a minor unless that minor is directly supervised by an adult. And painting them up like toys increases the likelihood of them being treated as toys.
This Week In Airsoft wrote:This Week in Airsoft stands behind its statement... The internet and YouTube can be your teacher.

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Postby Catch22 » Thu May 26, 2011 11:13 am

KA-BAR, do you remember what it's like to be 15, 16, 17? Starting to become Independent. Going out and doing stuff with your friends.. Were your parents with you, everytime you did something? If a kids parents want to come and play or chill at the field, that's cool. If not, that's cool aswell. Most of the kids are pretty decent people, and don't need mommy and daddy to hold their hand all day.

Kids and adults do dumb shit with airsoft guns. Don't just take it out on the kids.
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Postby Wisenheimer » Thu May 26, 2011 11:49 am

I believe it's more likely that the airsoft community such as the one here is not so much the issue. Conduct on the field will always be a complaining point, but to quote that ad, and I'll just copy and paste from it...

"the guns are obviously clear so that if you live in the beaverton area you can walk around on the street with them and you cant get a ticket.
please call me after 3:30pm
971-732-4615"


Here's the original link...

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/for/2400905576.html

This attitude must be educated out of the public at large. I think the people here, young and old, basically get it. It's numbskulls like this guy who have no clue there's an airsoft community that are the problem.

Airsoft needs a good PR department.
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Postby JamesW » Thu May 26, 2011 3:48 pm

Im a kid and I dont do any of the things you clam kids do and my parents are not always not with me. Say what you will about me but I know im safe with guns(real or not)
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Postby Ranger Commie » Thu May 26, 2011 3:55 pm

TriggerHappyJ wrote:Im a kid and I dont do any of the things you clam kids do and my parents are not always not with me. Say what you will about me but I know im safe with guns(real or not)

Same here although I had gun safety training so I could hunt.
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