War on Terrorism

[Jollyroger]

As much as I hate to get into this disscussion, I feel it's up to me to enlighten some of the combat challenged.

I've been to Iraq twice now and so far we've found lots of things that the general public has no idea about and probably never will. Were there Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD's)? Yes. Did we find any stock piles of them while we were there? None of your business. Are we making a difference? Hell yes!

Everyday I was there, some child, parent or other civilian thanked me for being there and getting rid of that "Asshole" (there words not mine). I often wondered why I was there or if it was worth it, but after seeing the way the children were living, the way general civilians were treated by Sadam, I knew why.

Hopefully in establishing a Democratic govt. in Iraq, other Middle Eastern countrys will see that the West is not the evil satan they believe us to be. When I first got there, the general population thought we were some kind of monsters that were comming to kill all the men, rape the women and eat their young. After we were there for just a month, all of the people around our base started to come around.

Yes, there were attacks, yes, some of us died. I even lost a very close friend of mine while there. Some of the attacks were done by Iraqi combatants, but about 80% of the attacks were by insurgents (combatants from other countries).

There are about 20 pages worth of things that happened over there to help improve the quality of life for the population not to mention insure that another crazed dictator like Sadam never comes to power there again. Do some research before you start bashing why we're over there.

Supporting the troops is nice, and we appreciate it, but we're all not over there just because we're told. Some of us believe in what we're doing. And yes, I do believe that Sadam had something to do with 9/11. There is just too much circumstantial evidence that we found while I was over there to say he had nothing to do with it.

[Zahrdoz]

The tree of liberty is feed with the blood of heroes, patriots and soldiers.

I remember when we went into Kuwait during Desert Storm. It was a shame we did not finish the job the first time. You can never forget the look in a shell shocked hungry child's eyes or forget the gratitude that you are given that is sincere and honost. You can never forget.

[Nightshade]

Those last two posts were powerful. Thank you for your service guys, as if I already haven't thanked you.

/nice

Stop double posting, Ferg or you'll be banned too.

[CharlesAFerg]

As much as I hate to get into this disscussion, I feel it's up to me to enlighten some of the combat challenged.

I've been to Iraq twice now and so far we've found lots of things that the general public has no idea about and probably never will. Were there Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD's)? Yes. Did we find any stock piles of them while we were there? None of your business. Are we making a difference? Hell yes!

Everyday I was there, some child, parent or other civilian thanked me for being there and getting rid of that "Asshole" (there words not mine). I often wondered why I was there or if it was worth it, but after seeing the way the children were living, the way general civilians were treated by Sadam, I knew why.

Hopefully in establishing a Democratic govt. in Iraq, other Middle Eastern countrys will see that the West is not the evil satan they believe us to be. When I first got there, the general population thought we were some kind of monsters that were comming to kill all the men, rape the women and eat their young. After we were there for just a month, all of the people around our base started to come around.

Yes, there were attacks, yes, some of us died. I even lost a very close friend of mine while there. Some of the attacks were done by Iraqi combatants, but about 80% of the attacks were by insurgents (combatants from other countries).

There are about 20 pages worth of things that happened over there to help improve the quality of life for the population not to mention insure that another crazed dictator like Sadam never comes to power there again. Do some research before you start bashing why we're over there.

Supporting the troops is nice, and we appreciate it, but we're all not over there just because we're told. Some of us believe in what we're doing. And yes, I do believe that Sadam had something to do with 9/11. There is just too much circumstantial evidence that we found while I was over there to say he had nothing to do with it.

Quite a morbid assessment, but I do love your statement, its just right.

The only people with true perspective are the people who have fought in the last conflicts.

Stop double posting, Ferg or you'll be banned too.

You could have PMed me that, but I will stop. The reason I was doing it was because he was replying without reading my edits. But you don't care about that.
Thanks Rick

[GungHo06]

what branch did u guys serve in????

[CharlesAFerg]

I never said i was the kind of socialist you implyed. You assumed i was a "stallinist Lover"

i'm sure that you can't have a good idea of YPSL from glancing at a web page

http://www.ypsl.org/cgi-bin/mods/showht ... principles

You belong to that organization and I did not "glance" I took a very good look at its members, and reaqd over all of its principles and its 'constitution'. Don't take me for a fool because it will come right back at you. Because you labelled yourself a young socialist, I know you go by those guidelines. If you don't please explain which ones and why. I want detailed responses, not petty retorts of a sour little boy.

Facts about the war would be nice, want to talk about the war in Iraq?

Also, I never implied you were a stalinish lover in that whole quote you posted.

You assume too much, you should read more carefully and stop trying to make these horrible generalizations about things. Isn't that against the young socialist doctrine? Why yes! It is!

Stereotypes are bad and higher education is a must! Do not generalize, its the easy way out!

My goodness, we have something in common!

i'm wondering if since i declaired myself a socialist that you have automatically chosen me as your enemy.

I do not want to be your enemy.

I would love to talk about iraq.

Where are the WMD's?
Where is the evedence of a connection between Iraq and 9/11?
Was it worth it to have thousands of soldiers and civilians die to make Iraq an example to the rest of the world?

You assume I am your enemy, I am only your enemy if you support people that restrict others rights, such as taking away firearms from civilians, etc...

Alright,

Where are the WMDs, they had them, they used them, although I disagree with the means to attack the country, specifically the "WMD" issues, I do agree with other reasons. The main reason is it was an armed minority oppressing a majority. As Fmr. President Harry Truman said...

"[font=Courier, monospace]At the present moment in world history nearly every nation must choose between alternative ways of life. The choice is too often not a free one.

One way of life is based upon the will of the majority, and is distinguished by free institutions, representative government, free elections, guarantees of individual liberty, freedom of speech and religion, and freedom from political oppression.

The second way of life is based upon the will of the minority forcibly imposed upon the majority. It relies upon terror and oppression, a controlled press and radio, fixed elections, and the suppression of personal freedoms.

I believe that it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures,

I believe that we must assist free peoples to work out their own destinies in their own way.[/font]"

The connection between Iraq and 9/11 is simple, it is not the direct connection that Iraq is somehow responsible, although it partly is, but that responsibility that they have falls in their support for militant Islam. The wahhabi sects of Saudi arabia and most notably the Sunni extremists sects that are supported by many nations including Iraq and its (PREVIOUSLY) minority ruled government.

Since Iraq has become free, the governments of nations around Iraq are recieving a forceful nudge to shape up, but more importantly the civilians of these nations know about this, and they see how their governments are horribly corrupt. Anybody who thinks the middle east is not horribly corrupt is badly mistaken. Ever since the rise of a free representative democracy in Iraq the middle east has changed for the better. Even you, a socialist will agree with that.

Lastly, using our own dead to make a statement is very disrespectful and wrong, I'm sure most of them believed it was right. How many Iraqis have been killed by a brutal dictator, is that better than IGNORING the problem? Iraq was not an example to the world, it is an example FOR the world.

I'm sorry I have to stop, please reply and I will elaborate anything further, I have to go do some stuff around here, I'm sure you udnerstand. But please, as questions.

[Wood Duck]

You assume I am your enemy, I am only your enemy if you support people that restrict others rights, such as taking away firearms from civilians, etc...

Alright,

Where are the WMDs, they had them, they used them, although I disagree with the means to attack the country, specifically the "WMD" issues, I do agree with other reasons. The main reason is it was an armed minority oppressing a majority. As Fmr. President Harry Truman said...

"[font=Courier, monospace]At the present moment in world history nearly every nation must choose between alternative ways of life. The choice is too often not a free one.

One way of life is based upon the will of the majority, and is distinguished by free institutions, representative government, free elections, guarantees of individual liberty, freedom of speech and religion, and freedom from political oppression.

The second way of life is based upon the will of the minority forcibly imposed upon the majority. It relies upon terror and oppression, a controlled press and radio, fixed elections, and the suppression of personal freedoms.

I believe that it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures,

I believe that we must assist free peoples to work out their own destinies in their own way.[/font]"

The connection between Iraq and 9/11 is simple, it is not the direct connection that Iraq is somehow responsible, although it partly is, but that responsibility that they have falls in their support for militant Islam. The wahhabi sects of Saudi arabia and most notably the Sunni extremists sects that are supported by many nations including Iraq and its (PREVIOUSLY) minority ruled government.

Since Iraq has become free, the governments of nations around Iraq are recieving a forceful nudge to shape up, but more importantly the civilians of these nations know about this, and they see how their governments are horribly corrupt. Anybody who thinks the middle east is not horribly corrupt is badly mistaken. Ever since the rise of a free representative democracy in Iraq the middle east has changed for the better. Even you, a socialist will agree with that.

Lastly, using our own dead to make a statement is very disrespectful and wrong, I'm sure most of them believed it was right. How many Iraqis have been killed by a brutal dictator, is that better than IGNORING the problem? Iraq was not an example to the world, it is an example FOR the world.

I'm sorry I have to stop, please reply and I will elaborate anything further, I have to go do some stuff around here, I'm sure you udnerstand. But please, as questions.

We are not enemys then since I am opposed to gun restrictions. (i think i mentioned that on another thread)

i did not mean to disrespect our soldiers i merly didn't think it was worth good peoples lives.

you make a good point about iraq not being indirectly involved in 9/11, my point was however that the bush administration built their case arond weapons of mass destruction and direct involvement.

I hope that the new leaders of Iraq are fair and are not corrupt but I worry that they will be. I do agree with your other statements though.