? on hits and blind firing.

[ClownBaby]

Yeah I got you. Like I said, it's not mandatory.

Funny you say that, I've been thinking about joining a dodge ball team!

[Nark]

Yeah I got you. Like I said, it's not mandatory.

Funny you say that, I've been thinking about joining a dodge ball team!

Right!? It's as though the balls have shrank and hardened. Add in all the gear and extras and it's fancy dodgeball haha

[ogrejager]

I've been shot (real guns) at several times in my life, probably will happen a few more times before I'm worm food. So for me, airsoft isn't as much of a game, as it is an exercise in situational awareness.

Sounds like you're a veteran who's had experience with some ricochets in the field. Have you?

You didn't answer his question. You talk a lot about experience but have never told us what that is. So...so far, to me, it's just more talk. I have been shot--not at, but actually shot. It's a lame story involving a dumbass turkey hunter. See, there's me saying how I come by this. Quit hinting around and tell us your background or quit hinting around about it. Please.

[Nark]

I've been shot (real guns) at several times in my life, probably will happen a few more times before I'm worm food. So for me, airsoft isn't as much of a game, as it is an exercise in situational awareness.

Sounds like you're a veteran who's had experience with some ricochets in the field. Have you?

You didn't answer his question. You talk a lot about experience but have never told us what that is. So...so far, to me, it's just more talk. I have been shot--not at, but actually shot. It's a lame story involving a dumbass turkey hunter. See, there's me saying how I come by this. Quit hinting around and tell us your background or quit hinting around about it. Please.

IXNAY ON THE ICDAY ENEYCHAY!

[ClownBaby]

Rad! Now I wanna go play dodge ball in my rattle. Haha

Rob, I used to collect a check for Uncle Sam, but the majority of shootings I've been involved in have happened at work. I've been a bouncer for 22 years. Mostly working heavy metal bars, rap clubs, and crappy strip joints.

Seems a lot of people can't just go out and have a good time without wanting to start shit.

Alcohol is awsome! But you being a firefighter, I'm sure you can relate.

Your not friends with tool Cheney are you?

[McNair]

In the real world, ricochets can wound/kill.
Though, that would require the game to run wound rules.
If the first ricochet doesn't wound/kill then there is no point in saying "x many count"

[Hawkeye [F.O.A.D.]]

Ok guys, heres a scenario, We have agreed that gear hits count, and depending on the game host gun hits count. So how about the player that puts his/hers hat on the end of their gun and uses it to draw fire from cover. I saw this a lot over this last summer at all the games I went to. So if someone is putting their hat or helmet on the end of their gun and waving it out in the open trying to draw fire, do hits to the gear or gun count as a kill?

[Matt]

I think the above is the main reason why gun hits should NOT count. Even if you aren't dicking around with your hat on the gun trying to draw fire - often times your gun is the only thing that's not behind cover and it's easy enough to shoot. If gun hits always count, you could just aim for the gun barrel sticking out of the tree and get a kill every time.

And when you start getting into the argument of hitting your gun disables your gun, that's way too complicated. There's no way of knowing if your gun would be broken and inoperable unless it was actually shot with a real bullet. And even then, how many of those situations would actually result in the gun not being able to be fired? For the sake of KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID - it's easier to just say that gun hits never count as a kill.

The same thing can be said for ricochets. Like McNair says, we don't know if it would wound, kill, or just leave a tiny scratch. It's so much easier to keep it simple and have a rule that any direct hit with a BB on your person results in a kill. There's a reason why this community has used these rules for many years, they are simple and everyone understands and interprets them in the same way.

[Hawkeye [F.O.A.D.]]

I think the above is the main reason why gun hits should NOT count. Even if you aren't dicking around with your hat on the gun trying to draw fire - often times your gun is the only thing that's not behind cover and it's easy enough to shoot. If gun hits always count, you could just aim for the gun barrel sticking out of the tree and get a kill every time.

And when you start getting into the argument of hitting your gun disables your gun, that's way too complicated. There's no way of knowing if your gun would be broken and inoperable unless it was actually shot with a real bullet. And even then, how many of those situations would actually result in the gun not being able to be fired? For the sake of KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID - it's easier to just say that gun hits never count as a kill.

The same thing can be said for ricochets. Like McNair says, we don't know if it would wound, kill, or just leave a tiny scratch. It's so much easier to keep it simple and have a rule that any direct hit with a BB on your person results in a kill. There's a reason why this community has used these rules for many years, they are simply and everyone understands and interprets them in the same way.

Thank you Matt, well said.

[ClownBaby]

Part of the reason I started doing that is because I was sick of watching people shoot from inside a room with two or three feet of their gun hanging out the window, or the same bullshit from behind trees. WTF peeps!

As far as the ricochet stuff goes. I'll be standing there (admin) next to someone who's prone behind a bunker, and a shit-ton of rounds come in and pelt the person 50 times, they turn to me and ask "am I hit?" to my reply "what do you think?"

If you can't tell, JUST CALL IT! THIS IS NOT PAINTBALL!!!

cheese and crackers, now ya got me using all hicaps...

Just so everyone knows, I personally will continue to call my ricochet and gun hits. So, that could be a free kill for you guys, if you can catch me slippin.

[ogrejager]

I disagree, I think, with Matt.

If you put your hat on a gun or stick or tool and wave it around and it gets shot, you are OUT. Again, keep it simple. Your gear counts. Otherwise, next game, I'm bringing a "riot shield" and it "won't count". Gear counts.

Honestly, I think gun hits should count, too. But they don't. That's one of the reasons I run a SAW. It's a great big piece of mobile cover.

Wow...you've been a bouncer at strip bars. That's like my dream job. Not bullshitting you. That would be fun.

[Matt]

So if I see your the foregrip of your gun poking out from behind a tree, all I have to do is shoot that and you'll call yourself hit?

[ClownBaby]

While I like the hat on a stick,(very Daffy Duck!) it would suck for the guy shooting the hat over and over, thinking it's got a headache in it and somebody's not calling it.

Rob, working pretty much anywhere that sells alcohol gets depressing quick. (always fun watching strippers cry).
The upside, almost every bar has good chicken strips!

Matt, most definitely, if you catch me slipping, light me up!

Oh, but that would require you to be actually playing! OH SNAP!

[Rentax]

I agree with Matt keeping thing as simple as possible is the way to go. That being said, sometimes in order to make the "simulation" more real things tend to get a bit more complicated and sometimes we push those boundaries a bit too far (like clown baby seems to want to do) In terms of "ricochets" counting, if we were shooting real bullets then they act severely different than the plastic BB's we are actually shooting when they hit a tree or a plywood building, VS a concrete bunker or some armored building. So if you are going to make ricochets count you would have to assume that everything around you is make of something a real bullet would ricochet off of, OR define which buildings are made of what material and this is where it starts getting WAY TOO COMPLICATED, and just becomes hindering to natural game play. And if you say all ricochets count, then it begins to throw a lot of the tactical side of airsoft completely out of the game. And I though good tactics was one of the reasons we played Airsoft over paintball.

If you put your hat on a gun or stick or tool and wave it around and it gets shot, you are OUT. Again, keep it simple. Your gear counts. Otherwise, next game, I'm bringing a "riot shield" and it "won't count". Gear counts.

I disagree with Ogerjager on this... If you are wearing the hat then it counts as part of you, but if you have removed the hat to use it as a prop to draw fire, then I think you are still alive if it gets hit. I believe the rule there should include intent, and circumstance. Here's another scenario, you are moving across an open field, the enemy opens fire on you and as you run to cover your helmet falls off, You make it to cover without being shot and when you look back the enemy is just shooting your helmet. Are you out? By Oger's ruling you would be, but clearly your head, body and soul are not in that helmet. I would say that the intent of the rule gear rule is stuff you are wearing, not stuff that you brought with you. That's how I see the rule anyway.
Of course if it's on your tool, you are wearing it... and deserve to get shot.

[ogrejager]

You make it to cover without being shot and when you look back the enemy is just shooting your helmet. Are you out? By Oger's ruling you would be, but clearly your head, body and soul are not in that helmet. I would say that the intent of the rule gear rule is stuff you are wearing, not stuff that you brought with you.

That's not what I said. Once gear is not being worn, carried, or otherwise attached to you, it's not your gear anymore. It's just trash left on the field. That hat is still being worn or carried by you when it's on a stick. If you take it off and hang it from a bush...then it's not your gear, anymore. Again, so next game I bring a riot shield that I'm specifically using "as a prop to draw fire" and it gets shot. Am I out? That's why I think gun hits should count. Anything you are carrying should count.