VTU Recruiting ( Updated W/ new website)

[chapped]

Very positive criticism Steve.
A pearl of wisdom, ignored at your own peril.

[Snake Doc]

Apparently, I missed something absolutely crucial here.

Your team is based on both U.S. Navy SEALs and LE SWAT teams?

I have been laboring under the mistaken impression that SWAT teams and (most) SEAL teams have very different missions, radically different training, and significantly different equipment. In my limited experience, LE SWAT teams perform urban high-risk warrant servie, limited Hostage Rescue / Barricaded Suspect missions within secured perimeters, and handle the weird / violent situations that crop up in large urban areas (again within a cordoned perimeter). SEALs tend to train to do longer ranged operations outside of controlled perimeters with significntly higher threat targets, do long range patrolling, surveillance and takedowns, and vessel boarding operations.


Building a team of 14-20 year olds who study both LRRP and SWAT tactics seems like it would require significantly more in the way of commitment than agreeing to watch movies and read books. Things like, i dunno, meeting physical fitness requirements, attending training events, and longer-term team exercises. Also, I would expect that gear requirements would be significantly stricter, such as requiring an immersion-capable primary with common magazines for uniformity and logistical simplicity, developing team roles beyond 'rifleman' and 'sniper', establishing a contribution system to buy larger items like breaching gear (hooligan tools are expensive!), requiring replica body armor (since both groups routinely wear it), and so on.

While it is always nice to see more teams in the area, I'm not seeing a whole lot of positives in your setup. Wouldn't it be a better use of your time to fold into a larger, existing group to benefit from an experience pool rather than trying to go it on your own? And how does it make sense to put age restrictions on your group that would be generally prohibitive of both prior-service military and LE SWAT members? A team of three isn't even a full fire team, let alone an LE-style entry stack.

I'm sure you will take this as unwarranted criticism, and that is your right. I'd still recommend letting your ideas simmer a little to season before throwing your hat into the ring as a team.

Why can we not use both of the SEALs and S.W.A.T's tactics? I don't see a problem with that. Obviously the start of a new team is not going to be perfect, so why expect that? Ofcourse when a 15 year old kid posts that he is creating a team no one takes him seriously. So instead of that they point out every thing they think is wrong in THEIR opinion. I'm sure nobody thinks alike and this is the way that my friends and I have chosen to carry our squad. And if we find that some things are not working we will revert to other things. Right now the gear parameters are just basic enough to get you out there and get playing. And as mentioned before i am not the webmaster of the site, the only rules i have are the one's posted on AP. My webmaster will be updating the website soon.

[Snowman]

Cool off. Please. Did you not read the posts after yours? He was offering *POSITIVE* criticism. The way you take this really pisses me off, personally.

[LiquidSnak]

Well, I suppose no one has to PM anyone to ask about your attitude anymore.

[Snake Doc]

Cool off. Please. Did you not read the posts after yours? He was offering *POSITIVE* criticism. The way you take this really pisses me off, personally.

What do you mean cool off? I was explaining my side of the story, that does not mean i'm pissed off. As it is not exactly easy to tell someone's tone by looking at a computer screen. I am taking everyone's advice and using it to try and make the foundation of our squad better. If anyone actually knew me on AP they would know it is damn near impossible to piss me off. I thank everyone for their advice.

[Snake Doc]

phony pony phony pony phony pony whine whine whine......

Snake Doc, stop taking this stuff personally. You need to learn how to take advice and criticism from people who are more experienced and know more than you. If Steve (or anyone else who's been around the block a few times) offers you advice and criticism, you shut up and listen to it, because he knows what he's talking about. Reading books and watching movies about SWAT or SEALs does not instantly make you become like them. You need practice and training.

What Steve was saying (I think), was that any "SWAT" training you do will virtually never be used, because they are extensively trained in urban operators, which there is a huge lack of in the PNW. SEALs, on the other hand, operate everywhere from woods to deserts. I don't know how you expect to use their tactics with 3 guys, but whatever, more power to you.

You yourself said that adults don't take teenagers seriously; you have given an ideal example of why that happens by acting the way you have. Don't automatically take offense to criticism, use it to your advantage and use it to improve your team. If you continue to jump down people's throats for trying to offer you advice, you're just going to show people that if you're too immature to take constructive criticism, you are most definitely too immature to be any kind of good leader.

You have your opinion, although you must take my tone differently than it really is. I AM taking the advice and AM NOT ignoring it. I do not know what made me inmature but obviously there is alot of miscommunication in this thread.

[Snowman]

Why can we not use both of the SEALs and S.W.A.T's tactics? I don't see a problem with that. Obviously the start of a new team is not going to be perfect, so why expect that? Ofcourse when a 15 year old kid posts that he is creating a team no one takes him seriously. So instead of that they point out every thing they think is wrong in THEIR opinion. I'm sure nobody thinks alike and this is the way that my friends and I have chosen to carry our squad. And if we find that some things are not working we will revert to other things. Right now the gear parameters are just basic enough to get you out there and get playing. And as mentioned before i am not the webmaster of the site, the only rules i have are the one's posted on AP. My webmaster will be updating the website soon.

Try reading that from the standpoint of someone who just now entered this thread. It sounds like you're ranting about how no one takes 15 year olds seriously.

[Snake Doc]

Why can we not use both of the SEALs and S.W.A.T's tactics? I don't see a problem with that. Obviously the start of a new team is not going to be perfect, so why expect that? Ofcourse when a 15 year old kid posts that he is creating a team no one takes him seriously. So instead of that they point out every thing they think is wrong in THEIR opinion. I'm sure nobody thinks alike and this is the way that my friends and I have chosen to carry our squad. And if we find that some things are not working we will revert to other things. Right now the gear parameters are just basic enough to get you out there and get playing. And as mentioned before i am not the webmaster of the site, the only rules i have are the one's posted on AP. My webmaster will be updating the website soon.

Try reading that from the standpoint of someone who just now entered this thread. It sounds like you're ranting about how no one takes 15 year olds seriously.

It depends how you take it. I would probably agree with you, but that is not my intention.

[chapped]

For what it's worth, I read your tone the same way as those who have replied.
If the error isn't in how you are receiving the advice of this thread then the error lies in how you are communicating your responses.
You ARE coming off flippant.

Humility will carry you farther than any other attribute in this community, (or life for that matter.)
Stop defending yourself and start listening.

[Snowman]

Also, trying to add my *constructive* criticism, on your webpage, tell your webmaster to ditch the Marines logo. You are not in the Marines. You haven't earned the title of US Marine. When you have earned it, do as you please, but until then, get rid of it. If it's a must-have, create a separate page stating "We support the Marine Corps" or something like that. +1 on the graphics revamp.

[Snake Doc]

For what it's worth, I read your tone the same way as those who have replied.
If the error isn't in how you are receiving the advice of this thread then the error lies in how you are communicating your responses.
You ARE coming off flippant.

Humility will carry you farther than any other attribute in this community, (or life for that matter.)
Stop defending yourself and start listening.

I have been listening, i realize it is NOT a good idea to base our team off of Navy SEALs and LE S.W.A.T. Teams. And am updating the guidelines on our team website as we speak. I sincerely do appreciate the advice given and am using it to strengthen the team.

[Snake Doc]

Also, trying to add my *constructive* criticism, on your webpage, tell your webmaster to ditch the Marines logo. You are not in the Marines. You haven't earned the title of US Marine. When you have earned it, do as you please, but until then, get rid of it. If it's a must-have, create a separate page stating "We support the Marine Corps" or something like that. +1 on the graphics revamp.

Yeah, i am currently in the proccess of editing the website. The Marines logo has been replaced by the VTU logo. Once i have completely finished i will save all the changes that have been made.

[Mini-Marine]

You don't have to settle on an impression right away.

You don't have to even be on a team right away. There are a lot more airsofters who just come out to games and play then there are who are on a particular team.

Use whatever impression you want, but try and stay consistent to it.

Or you can make up some totally random concept like "87th leet a$$ kicker battalion" and use whatever camo/gear you want. There is no rule in airsoft saying you have to base your impression off of a real military unit.

If you want to learn, come out to one of the PLA training days. Get a basic understanding of the basics of military tactics/doctrine and then work from there. The training is open to everyone who wants to attend and we do it every month.

[Snake Doc]

You don't have to settle on an impression right away.

You don't have to even be on a team right away. There are a lot more airsofters who just come out to games and play then there are who are on a particular team.

Use whatever impression you want, but try and stay consistent to it.

Or you can make up some totally random concept like "87th leet a$$ kicker battalion" and use whatever camo/gear you want. There is no rule in airsoft saying you have to base your impression off of a real military unit.

If you want to learn, come out to one of the PLA training days. Get a basic understanding of the basics of military tactics/doctrine and then work from there. The training is open to everyone who wants to attend and we do it every month.

Thanks Mini-Marine. Where and when are PLA's training?

[Mini-Marine]

Next training day will be at the end of April.

We will primarily be covering map reading/navigation as well as radio procedure, but we will also be going back over the training we did last weekend which included individual and fire team level movement techniques.