kwa myth

[Minerva]

That is in the US however.. Not in some factory in Taiwan where everyone hates their jobs..

Do they hate their jobs? Or do we, as decadent, self-entitled Americans think they should hate their jobs? It's equally possible that they're happy to have a job, isn't it?

Bottomline--you got set straight about the shims in KWA's. Quit trying to defend your position.

Set straight? How can you tell me that something that comes mass produced out of an asian factory can be even slightly compared to something that is hand made in a machine shop here? Yes I added the extra 0. Sorry for that. It was late and I made a mistake. Sorry I'm not perfect

EDIT: BOOM http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5855

KWA saying they did in fact start adding shims to prevent bushing problems.

+1 for nyan cat

EDIT2: About the hating their job part. I would hate my job knowing that some other bastard a few thousand miles away makes multiple times what I make doing the same job, just because he lives in a different country.

[Miracle]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

[Minerva]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

Still. I'd be pissed. Not pissed enough to do anything, but annoyed enough to complain. Kudos to them about getting on their feet. I'm not one to care about "who's on top" when we are all supposed to co-exist anyways

[Haloeclipse]

That is in the US however.. Not in some factory in Taiwan where everyone hates their jobs..

Do they hate their jobs? Or do we, as decadent, self-entitled Americans think they should hate their jobs? It's equally possible that they're happy to have a job, isn't it?

Bottomline--you got set straight about the shims in KWA's. Quit trying to defend your position.

Set straight? How can you tell me that something that comes mass produced out of an asian factory can be even slightly compared to something that is hand made in a machine shop here? Yes I added the extra 0. Sorry for that. It was late and I made a mistake. Sorry I'm not perfect

EDIT: BOOM http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5855

KWA saying they did in fact start adding shims to prevent bushing problems.

+1 for nyan cat

EDIT2: About the hating their job part. I would hate my job knowing that some other bastard a few thousand miles away makes multiple times what I make doing the same job, just because he lives in a different country.

American work ethic and craftsmanship is shit. If you said that 30 years ago, I might believe you, now...not so much. Your narrow minded and ignorant view of foreign lands is laughable and saddening at the same time.

[Minerva]

That is in the US however.. Not in some factory in Taiwan where everyone hates their jobs..

Do they hate their jobs? Or do we, as decadent, self-entitled Americans think they should hate their jobs? It's equally possible that they're happy to have a job, isn't it?

Bottomline--you got set straight about the shims in KWA's. Quit trying to defend your position.

Set straight? How can you tell me that something that comes mass produced out of an asian factory can be even slightly compared to something that is hand made in a machine shop here? Yes I added the extra 0. Sorry for that. It was late and I made a mistake. Sorry I'm not perfect

EDIT: BOOM http://www.kwausa.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5855

KWA saying they did in fact start adding shims to prevent bushing problems.

+1 for nyan cat

EDIT2: About the hating their job part. I would hate my job knowing that some other bastard a few thousand miles away makes multiple times what I make doing the same job, just because he lives in a different country.

American work ethic and craftsmanship is shit. If you said that 30 years ago, I might believe you, now...not so much. Your narrow minded and ignorant view of foreign lands is laughable and saddening at the same time.

Statement had less to do with origin, more to do with quality of hand made machined parts vs a mass produced factory made part.

Jeeze so much with the politics

And narrow minded view of foreign lands? Can you honestly tell me that you would choose the factory made china-gun over a hand made american gun? That's what my original statement intended to impress upon people. Not this blown up, out of context, geo-political nonsense. I even said earlier I could care less about who's on top, because we are all supposed to co-exist anyways.

[Miracle]

You would be hard pressed to find a product in US markets that was actually "American Made" from start to finish. Cheap labor and the lure of a lower production cost means that at least some of the labor or products are parted out from other markets. The new term is "Assembled in America", which is just telling a partial truth.

In context, what are these hand made American airsoft guns you are talking about?

Edit: This is getting very off topic. I'm writing a term paper right now, meaning I am apparently trying my hardest not to actually write any of the paper and instead argue about economics. You have been warned.

[Minerva]

You would be hard pressed to find a product in US markets that was actually "American Made" from start to finish. Cheap labor and the lure of a lower production cost means that at least some of the labor or products are parted out from other markets. The new term is "Assembled in America", which is just telling a partial truth.

In context, what are these hand made American airsoft guns you are talking about?

Edit: This is getting very off topic. I'm writing a term paper right now, meaning I am apparently trying my hardest not to actually write any of the paper and instead argue about economics. You have been warned.

That spiffy looking PolarStar air gun with the control module is made in America..

EDIT: Apparently its called the PR-15 EPAR. Gearbox and such is manufactured in the USA. Body however is VFC

[Miracle]

As I'm sure you know, VFC is chinese. And an excellent company.

Consider your plot foiled.

[Minerva]

As I'm sure you know, VFC is chinese. And an excellent company.

Consider your plot foiled.

However the body is VFC.

and VFC is actually based in Taiwan. Like i said, the EPAR unit itself is made here. Don't blame them for going with VFC. My second favorite externals makers, they make some good shit

[BlacksunshineGAAS]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

Taiwan is not China. FYI. Their standard of living is different. However I'm sure that 1400 a month would be exceptionally great pay for there. I know in china and philipines the average monthly income is 200 so compare that to the 1400 figure you throw out and its like they would be getting paid 5k a month here. At any rate this is flawed thinking to assume that a machinist here is any better then one there. Do you just assume that because were in America we build it better?

[Minerva]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

Taiwan is not China. FYI. Their standard of living is different. However I'm sure that 1400 a month would be exceptionally great pay for there. I know in china and philipines the average monthly income is 200 so compare that to the 1400 figure you throw out and its like they would be getting paid 5k a month here. At any rate this is flawed thinking to assume that a machinist here is any better then one there. Do you just assume that because were in America we build it better?

No. I assume it's better because the original post was making a comparison between a factory made china product and something hand machined here in the US.

[Miracle]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

Taiwan is not China. FYI. Their standard of living is different. However I'm sure that 1400 a month would be exceptionally great pay for there. I know in china and philipines the average monthly income is 200 so compare that to the 1400 figure you throw out and its like they would be getting paid 5k a month here. At any rate this is flawed thinking to assume that a machinist here is any better then one there. Do you just assume that because were in America we build it better?

You should probably realize that I am not the one who instigated the argument. Look at the quote box.

FYI stating a fact about Taiwanese salaries and then mentioning that China is fast becoming the sole production superpower are both separate truths. Not connected.

[Minerva]

^^ In reply to this, to be fair, comparing taiwanese average monthly salary ( approx 1400 USD) with US average monthly INCOME (2600) isn't always fair since we have social programs like unemployment, social security, GI bills, blah blah that raises our per capita. Salary to salary, its not that big of a difference, especially when you compare the cost of living in the US and in China. Comparitively, now that China is becoming the production and economic superpower, its no longer fair to make generalized statements about the poor people who work in factories for a dollar a day. Its no longer true.

Taiwan is not China. FYI. Their standard of living is different. However I'm sure that 1400 a month would be exceptionally great pay for there. I know in china and philipines the average monthly income is 200 so compare that to the 1400 figure you throw out and its like they would be getting paid 5k a month here. At any rate this is flawed thinking to assume that a machinist here is any better then one there. Do you just assume that because were in America we build it better?

You should probably realize that I am not the one who instigated the argument. Look at the quote box.

FYI stating a fact about Taiwanese salaries and then mentioning that China is fast becoming the sole production superpower are both separate truths. Not connected.

No argument to be had here. No reason to fill this thread full of social-political nonsense. Hand made shit will always be nicer then factory shit. Regardless of origin. End discussion and back to bashing KWA's?

[ogrejager]

Hand made shit will always be nicer then factory shit. Regardless of origin.

I actually disagree with this.

Either can be better than the other. I make a lot of stuff by hand, for example (yeah, I sew--weird, huh? Everything I sew is camo, though). Some of the stuff I make is stronger, more durable, and longer lasting than factory equivalents. Others of it is not. It depends on the product. The factory items have had literally thousands of iterations to see flaws and work them out.

I've got a buddy with a full machine shop, including a lathe and so forth. He could not build an airsoft gun. Jesse from AONW told me that one company did try to make airsoft guns here in the US. For similar quality (NOT better) to our Chinese ones, they were looking at a $600 unit price.

[Jester316]

Labor and wage laws in the US will never allow the US to make an affordable ENTRY LEVEL airsoft gun of similar quality to Dboys, Echo1, G&G Sportline,...