PACA low visibility plate carriers

[JoKeR1147]

So I been looking at these and Ive been wondering... what do you wear them with? Ive seen some pictures of PMCS rocken em with basic chest rig configs but what else are they used with? Currently I have an EPC in RG that I use for a ranger impression but I heard from someone that your supposed to wear one of the PACAs underneath the EPC/MOPC/Ect. That seems wrong to me, I could see someone running a PACA with a RRV but using a PACA with an EPC just seems redundant. Can someone please help clarify how the PACA low vis plate carriers fit in with other PCs?

[McNair]

Some plate carriers require soft armor to be worn under the plates for it to work properly.

[JoKeR1147]

Any examples of such plate carriers?

[McNair]

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will post soon.
I just know that that tid bit off the top of my head.

[Snowman]

A bunch of the NSW 6094s had soft armor inserts in them.

[Snowman]

I talked with an LBT rep, he mentioned it when I asked about armor inserts. It was also discussed a little bit on Gearsoc some time ago.

[Nodachi]

For a while in 2005-2006 or so, I believe it was SOP to wear soft armor vests under the CIRAS instead of using the inserts.

[ScaredShooter]

Nasty I learned so much from you just now. Actually I probably retained very little of it. But thanks, and also to the topic-starter who initiated this.

[Jerm_G]

The concept of the use of soft armor under plate carriers is called a tierred armor system. It's a method used for those who transission from different types of opperational enviroments frequantly. Most offten its used with the RRV or stand alone carrier systems.

It's primary use was before side sapis were available. The Sapis are designed to take direct rifle rounds but dont provide protection to other areas of the body. At the time it was considered to be a logical thought that gunfights would result in rounds deliverd to the plate areas. the soft armor (wich is a full wrap) would protect all the other vitals (side areas) not protected by the SAPI plates from shrapnel. That being stated, the PACAs due tend to help raise the body's core tempriture. The end result gave the operator the ability to raise or lower his level of protection based on the mission, weather and so on without having to swap whole kits. The concept gave the operatior the flexiblity to have the following options with his armor.

1: Chest rig, no armor
2 :chest rig, soft armor
3: plate carrier with Sapis only
4: Plate carrier, and soft armor.

The concept worked best with the RRV due to the rig being able to accept SAPIs or not use them if wanted. The system also allows the operator to go from direct action ot covert operations while still maintianing some level of protection. This is a method that may see a resurgance again in the near future as design improvements come along and if mission requirements want soft armor worn in some FOBs or more covert operations start taking place.

[Nodachi]

It's called spalling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalling

[Jewish Ninja]

You can still stick plate backers in 6094s and JPCs. They are soft armor that do not provide anymore protection, but make your plates safe to use.

I've heard that around 2005 or so Rangers were using PACAs under their EPCs, but that might be heresy.

Also, PACA brand (and clones styled off them) will have pockets for plates in them. My Safariland soft armor carrier also has pockets to carry plates in. Some of the concealable carriers will not have the plate pocket in them as they are designed for cop/civvie use which generally doesn't deal with .308 AP rounds.

[Snowman]

In '05 the Regiment had RBSSs and RRVs, neither of which offer any side protection, so they got PACAs underneath them.

[Nodachi]

Yep.

[Jerm_G]

To clarify, the paca is not there to stop spalling as that is not an issue with the modern SAPI plates like it was with the old steel ones. It's job is simply to protect the areas the plates dont cover when there is a high risk of shrapnell. This is a system I run due to the fact I dont need a concealed armor kit, a plate kit, a full vest kit, and a simple chest rig. I just raise or lower the level of protection for the needs of the job. For example, if Im teaching a handgun class, its soft armor concealed. If Im teaching a carbine class, it's often plates. If Im doing a combo class, I can step up with both and even a helmet if needed. Just depends on what I need to do. If Im playing airsoft, then it's a lowly chest rig because running around all day with 30 plus pounds of crap strapped to you sucks and my hobby that I rarely get to enjoy shouldnt suck.

FYI, MARSOC and Recon used the same method for quite some time. Some may still use it.