One of the reasons Airsoft is getting a bad image

[Jester316]

Everyone saying "educate them" and no one mentioning that as a generality, the ones getting in this trouble aren't part of these "communities". They're normally just derps whom bought the guns and maybe gear and are out having some fun without thinking.

You can't educate someone if you have no way to connect with them.

Read my comment. I said that exact thing (but with different words).

[Steve]

Everyone saying "educate them" and no one mentioning that as a generality, the ones getting in this trouble aren't part of these "communities". They're normally just derps whom bought the guns and maybe gear and are out having some fun without thinking.

You can't educate someone if you have no way to connect with them.

Read my comment. I said that exact thing (but with different words).

+1.

Enforce existing regulations / laws (if you commit a crime with a replica, you've commuted the crime with a firearm, for example). Arrest, cite, fine perpetrators and / or guardians.

Require background checks for purchase, like with type categories of firearms, ignoring the NFA requirements.

Stop mandating orange flash hiders. Instead, require replicas to conform to similar color patterns as actual firearms. Stop taking things that lob projectiles and painting them like nerf guns.

[Alien_Hunter]

It's all fun and games until the police unload a magazine of 9mm into you. My neighbor (a sheriff) told me the trigger pull is like 2 ounces on his sidearm.

[ClownBaby]

THIN THE HEARD

[Jester316]

It's all fun and games until the police unload a magazine of 9mm into you. My neighbor (a sheriff) told me the trigger pull is like 2 ounces on his sidearm.

I'm no calling him a liar...but I am...

I don't think you can get a glock or m&p trigger under 2lbs based on how they work. Same with a revolver... The mechanics of it just don't allow it.

Call him out on it next time.

[Alien_Hunter]

It's all fun and games until the police unload a magazine of 9mm into you. My neighbor (a sheriff) told me the trigger pull is like 2 ounces on his sidearm.

I'm no calling him a liar...but I am...

I don't think you can get a glock or m&p trigger under 2lbs based on how they work. Same with a revolver... The mechanics of it just don't allow it.

Call him out on it next time.

I must have misheard him. He does not need to BS, he is enough a badass as it is. But yeah the triggers are lighter than stock pistols. Between adrenaline, training and a lighter trigger pull it probably does feel like only a few ounces.

[Kenneth]

I had to figure out my password again for my account when i saw this post. I heard about this in the paper but never saw the names of these two idiots until now. I went to school with both of them. This sounds like something they would do. They were both frickin idiots and its no surprise at all.

[ClownBaby]

Do you guys think we should start a perma-ban list for dum dums like this?

[Steve]

Unfortunately, it wouldn't / won't / doesn't help.

Generally speaking, members of the forum do not have a historical record of getting caught doing stupid things with airsoft guns and ending up on the news.

Generally speaking, the folks who are doing stupid things with airsoft guns are getting them from big-box retailers and have no idea that the AP community exists.

The overlap in the Venn diagram bubbles between "people doing stupid shit in public" and "members of the AP community" is so small as to make it pretty much pointless. Also, LE generally does not release information about minors (name, etc), so adding them to a list would be problematic.

There is a history of stupidity in public associated with activities like airsoft. Many years ago, paintball was experiencing similar stupidity. People were playing in places that were incredibly inappropriate, there was a perception that it was a bunch of mouthbreathers and militia nuts running around practicing overthrowing governments, and whatnot. Paintball as an industry moved away from "tactical" and into a competitive, regulated environment. The limited pool of manufacturers aggressively sponsored regulated play which banned effective camouflage and overly realistic markers and sought media exposure tailored to change their image. Which is how a lot of folks ended up moving away from paintball and into airsoft.

At about the same time, airsoft started becoming more popular. Back in the day, the only airsoft replicas available had to be imported from overseas (Tokyo Marui, ICS, a few other specialty companies). It was expensive, it took forever, and not many folks knew about them. A limited market with a high cost of entry reduced the number of impulse idiots. The cost of entry has come down significantly. The crappy spring rifles started showing up in local shops back in the late 90's IIRC (I joined the guard in '97, pretty sure I had a spring L85 and MP-5 SD along with a couple of GBB pistols around that time that I'm pretty sure came from Aloha Surplus or Tammie's Hobbies). I remember walking into Tammie's Hobbies around 2000 and buying a TM MP-5 SD 6 off the wall for around $500, which was amazing at the time. As late as 2004, airsoft was still pretty limited. I want to say that Airsoft Outlet NW opened around mid-2005, and there were a few other shops carrying a small selection of AEGs (mostly sidelines in hobby shops, paintball shops, and surplus stores). In order to get an airsoft gun locally, those were really your only choices. So, the folks that bought them tended to be folks who were already aware of them and actively sought them out. Pricing was considerably higher than entry level guns are now, and you bought them from shops staffed by people who were actively involved in the community. Now, of course, entry level electric guns are available in major sporting goods stores for less than $100, and generally the person ringing up your order couldn't give a shit less about where you are planning on playing and has no incentive to steer you in the right direction. As an aside, cheap airsoft guns have helped the image of Paintball considerably, since the cost of an entry level marker is comparable to an entry level AEG, but ammo cost is ridiculously disproportionate, so generally the mouthbreathers go with the cheaper-to-shoot and cooler-looking airsoft guns.

So, we could take a page from the Paintball playbook, ban camo and try to boost our public image (no thanks!), and basically strip most of the fun out of the hobby.

Or we can try to educate the general public, which has several issues:
1: Finding the mouthbreathers to educate in the first place. That's a lot of work, involving some form of outreach to or at the point of sale for the shitty AEGs that are generally involved in stupidity.
2: Interacting with the media to raise awareness that there are responsible individuals involved in the activity. Which requires finding media folks who are interested in something other than painting players as terrorists or psychopaths (good luck with that). As an aside, this would require spokespeople. In the movies, Rangers are generally badasses with perfect teeth and pretty faces and stacked physiques. In the real world, there are a whole lot of doofy-looking motherfuckers wearing Ranger tabs (still badass battery-powered face-eating killers, mind you. But not pretty). Similarly, the typical airsoft player is not exactly built like the prom-queen-railing quarterback with a million-dollar smile and winning personality. I'm pretty sure that if you went to any major outdoor event and looked to your left and right limits, you probably wouldn't want most of the folks around you standing in front of a reporter. Just saying, is all.

Which is not to say that outreach isn't actually happening. It happens at specialty shops (AONW, Thunderkiss). It really happens at indoor airsoft arenas. I've overheard Terry from OAA and Wade from Tac-Ops stressing safety and responsibility to the kids on multiple occasions. But, this impact is pretty limited because the audience has self-selected for responsibility by showing up at the indoor arena rather than having "backyard warz".

So, the realistic solutions to the problem that I can come up with are as follows:
-Find a way to disincentivize the sale of replicas to idiots.
-Educate potential players / buyers / parents as to the responsibilities attached to possession and use of airsoft replicas.
-Protect the activity from negative legislation (neon colors, bans, etc.)

The best solution that I can come up with is to change how replicas are regulated.
-Rather than requiring an ASTM 875 or brighter blaze orange muzzle, require that all replicas have black, tan, or green muzzles so they look LESS like toys.
-Enforce EXISTING laws (use of a replica in the commission of a crime is the same as using a legit firearm in the commission of a crime) and come down HARD and PUBLICLY on people who do stupid shit with replicas.
-Require all replicas carry a unique serial number, and require a NICS check at purchase from a retailer. Maintain the same purchase standards for replicas as for legitimate firearms, excepting NFA provisions (no tax stamp, no SBR / SBS / AOW / no full-auto requirements). Basically, no purchase by felons, children, or folks judged a danger to themselves or others. 18 and over to buy rifles, shotguns, etc. and 21 for pistols. In Oregon, NICS checks are $10 and done pretty much instantly online. And mommy is much less likely to leave her teenaged idiot unsupervised with something that she had to do a background check to buy. The added headache of requiring a NICS check disincentivizes selling replicas at big-box sporting goods stores.

[The Grand Baboon]

Guess wat guyz? There's another reason airsofters get a bad image...

These dumb fucks...

Check out the guy in the back with the 5th Group flash...he's such a special snowflake that he can't even form a beret in the right direction.

MMMMM HMMMM, Captain Ballduster McSoulpatch 2.0

[Jewish Ninja]

No idea what you're getting at there...

[ClownBaby]

Let's get back on track. As someone who hosts games, I've already thought about setting up a list of these offenders, and if they come to my games they don't get in. Is that too much? Does it fall into the "we're not educating them" category or is it a way (if properly promoted in the media, fields, and shops) of showing the public that we want to, and have ways of policing ourselves. And more, so as a deterrent. Hopefully.

If we agree as a group, I would be more than happy to take all legitimate reports, and create a database that could be shared throughout the area. What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please. Also I'd appreciate input from some of the O.G.'s please. Thanks you

[ogrejager]

Let's get back on track. As someone who hosts games, I've already thought about setting up a list of these offenders, and if they come to my games they don't get in. Is that too much? Does it fall into the "we're not educating them" category or is it a way (if properly promoted in the media, fields, and shops) of showing the public that we want to, and have ways of policing ourselves. And more, so as a deterrent. Hopefully.

If we agree as a group, I would be more than happy to take all legitimate reports, and create a database that could be shared throughout the area. What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please. Also I'd appreciate input from some of the O.G.'s please. Thanks you

You know, maybe this is the wrong approach? Sure, we don't want asshats at our games...BUT...maybe if they had someplace legitimate to play, they'd stop finding places to play? Maybe a little education and a legit field is all they need.

Naw, never mind, that would never work. Dumb is dumb.

[Alien_Hunter]

Let's get back on track. As someone who hosts games, I've already thought about setting up a list of these offenders, and if they come to my games they don't get in. Is that too much? Does it fall into the "we're not educating them" category or is it a way (if properly promoted in the media, fields, and shops) of showing the public that we want to, and have ways of policing ourselves. And more, so as a deterrent. Hopefully.

If we agree as a group, I would be more than happy to take all legitimate reports, and create a database that could be shared throughout the area. What do you guys think? Serious answers only, please. Also I'd appreciate input from some of the O.G.'s please. Thanks you

You know, maybe this is the wrong approach? Sure, we don't want asshats at our games...BUT...maybe if they had someplace legitimate to play, they'd stop finding places to play? Maybe a little education and a legit field is all they need.

Naw, never mind, that would never work. Dumb is dumb.

We build an entire city for the dumb. Everything is covered in rubber/no sharp edges and everyone wears water wings and a helmet 24/7.

[Hawkeye [F.O.A.D.]]

Has anyone considered that forming a group of respected players and launching a PR campaign, educating the average joe, showing our sport in a positive light, might just help us. just like other groups have done. We could sit down with the local police dept's and have a real conversation, meet with local new networks, ect. Bringing our hobby into positive light and possibly turning it into a actual sport.